What's more current than the weather?

[henry quirk]

"You've claimed I live in a cage and can't do anything except what I'm directed to do."

Nope. I said a cage is bring built, one wherein you'll be directed (just as you wanna be).

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"Now it's I won't do what technocrats decide I won't do, which makes no sense at all."

Makes perfect sense to a literate person.

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"You want to wreck the organization, its agencies, and its rules, that prevent me from doing those things."

How sad for you that you need organizations, agencies, and imposed rules to avoid murderin', defraudin', and pollutin'. You're a well-trained lil monkey, aren't you.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

"You've claimed I live in a cage and can't do anything except what I'm directed to do."

Nope. I said a cage is bring built, one wherein you'll be directed (just as you wanna be).

Wrong you said... "cage, not wall... you: locked in... I'll visit, take a gander, toss you treats"

But I'm not locked in anything or anyplace.

"Now it's I won't do what technocrats decide I won't do, which makes no sense at all."

Makes perfect sense to a literate person.

Now you sound like tw. 'You're not smart enough to understand'

"You want to wreck the organization, its agencies, and its rules, that prevent me from doing those things."

How sad for you that you need organizations, agencies, and imposed rules to avoid murderin', defraudin', and pollutin'. You're a well-trained lil monkey, aren't you.

You obviously have learned nothing from history, why the fuck do you think those laws got passed in the first place? There was a whole lot of murder, fraud, and pollution. They still do it if they think they can make enough money and buy enough lawyers to get away with it, or just send some low level flunky to jail.
When you can't get water safe to drink what will you do, go out and shoot the meter reader? When you piss somebody off and they blow your brains out do you expect you son to avenge you? That John Wayne shit doesn't work anymore, remember his real name was Marion, it was all make believe.

[henry quirk]

"Wrong you said... "cage, not wall... you: locked in... I'll visit, take a gander, toss you treats"

And just before that...


Quote: Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce The plot...

(my response):...to build a gilded cage, lil bird


Context, Bruce. A cage is being built, once you're in it, I'll visit, toss you treats.

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"But I'm not locked in anything or anyplace."

You will be.

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"Now you sound like tw. 'You're not smart enough to understand'"

I can live with that, and, you're not.

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"why the fuck do you think those laws got passed in the first place?"

Bastids did bad things, opportunists saw the chance to put everyone under thumb instead of just punishing the bastids.

Anecdote: a friend of mine in NY works for an engineering firm. She relayed this to me...

For a long time: everyone had unfettered net access. One guy abused it, surfed for porn. I.T. caught him. What shoulda happened: he gets punished, everyone else is left alone. What did happen: everyone lost net access.

Folks like you say the good must suffer for the bad. Folks like me say punish the guilty and leave the rest alone.

You say: guilty till proven innocent.

I say: innocent till proven guilty.

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Anyway: enough. We don't see eye to eye. You, keep workin' for what I see as shackles and muzzles, and I'll keep workin' for what you see as destructive anarchy.

'nuff said.

[xoxoxoBruce]

How do you punish corporations unless what their doing is against the law?
You've been playing with a stacked Ouija board or listening to the Idaho crowd too much.
So what will you do when you can't get safe drinking water anymore, tell your kids to drink whiskey?

[henry quirk]

I've covered all this before in-forum.

Read closely, cuz I ain't doin' this no more.


The individual owns himself.

He has a right to his life, liberty, and property.

His life, liberty, or property is only forfeit, in part or in whole, if he knowingly, willingly, deprives another of his life, liberty, or property.


From these first principles you form a minarchy. A function of a minarchy is the constabulary & court.

So: if Corp X pisses in your cornflakes (knowingly, willingly, deprives you of life, liberty, or property), file your complaint, plead your case.

Now: if you really wanna know more (and you don't), go do your own damned research. Start with 'minarchy'.

[tw]

Originally Posted by henry quirk

His life, liberty, or property is only forfeit, in part or in whole, if he knowingly, willingly, deprives another of his life, liberty, or property.

Which defines a patriotic American. Anti-Americans (Timothy McVeight, henry quirk) only want to wreck shit. They both share a common belief. Want to screw current and following generations to satisfy self serving desires and emotions.

[henry quirk]

.

[xoxoxoBruce]

First of all you can't have a minarchy without everyone on board, well 2/3rds anyway, and it would have to be on land no nation claims or attempting it would be sedition. I can't see it coming to fruition on a ship, too many uncooperative individuals.

Originally Posted by henry quirk

From these first principles you form a minarchy. A function of a minarchy is the constabulary & court.

So: if Corp X pisses in your cornflakes (knowingly, willingly, deprives you of life, liberty, or property), file your complaint, plead your case.

What case? unless CorpX violated some rule, some law, you have no case. Going in to depend on a ruling in your favor because your bitch is just? Fugetaboutit, Corp X supplies half the jobs in the minarchy, and free Corp X beer to the court & constabulary. Free beer beats the milk of human kindness every time. So Corp X can kill 10% of the minarchy but nobody can prove it because there's no government arm with the authority to dig into it.

No, democracy is best, not what we have now because the lazy voters have abdicated their roll and the 1% have gladly taken over for them. And it sounds too simple, but all it takes is the voters getting involved. The only thing various groups must agree on is not letting the politicians off the hook. Don't let them be bought, if they are bounce them out. It may seem that justice is moving glacially slow, but it's safer that way, and it does get done.

Now: if you really wanna know more (and you don't), go do your own damned research. Start with 'minarchy'.

Does not compute Been kicking the idea around for 150 years and there still isn't any. Basically it's regressive, back to the stone age.

[henry quirk]

"First of all you can't have a minarchy without everyone on board, well 2/3rds anyway"

Sure you can. Do you even know what a minarchy is? You coulda googled it, but obviously didn't, indicatin' you really aren't interested in what I have to say, or in my view. You're just reactin' to havin' the status quo (you on the dole, Bruce?) threatened.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night-watchman_state

In libertarian political philosophy, a night-watchman state is a model of a state whose only functions are to provide its citizens with the military, the police, and courts, thus protecting them from aggression, theft, breach of contract, fraud, and enforcing property laws

I would add 'militia' to the functions cuz when the other three get uppity, the militia (that's 'us') get to shoot 'em in the ass with rock salt.

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"it would have to be on land no nation claims or attempting it would be sedition."

Or: America could become an minarchy. Many folks live as though they were in a minarchy already. I do. Bettin' you don't.

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"What case? unless CorpX violated some rule, some law, you have no case."

The rule, the law is: don't knowingly, willingly, deprive another of his life, liberty, or property. That pretty much covers any complaint you might have against Corp X, your neighbor, some stranger, etc. The standard you have to meet as accuser (the standard the accused has to beat) is right there, plain as day.

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"So Corp X can kill 10% of the minarchy but nobody can prove it because {b}there's no government arm with the authority to dig into it[/b]."

Sure there is: the constabulary (that there is the po-po) and the courts (that there is the courts).

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"No, democracy is best"

How would you know? If you live in America you've never lived in a democracy. No, Bruce, America is a constitutional republic. Sure, democratic process is a feature of the republic (this is called representative democracy) but strictly within the boundaries of the national and state charters/constitutions.

That is: even if everyone wants to, no one can vote for me to be sequestered away 'just because'. In a democracy the majority could vote to have me jailed ('just because'), you neutered, and tw installed as King of the Hill. It is precisely to hobble the collective, capricious, will of the people and (promote individual sovereignty) that we don't have a democracy.

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"Been kicking the idea around for 150 years and there still isn't any. Basically it's regressive, back to the stone age."

Yeah, there's never been a true communism in the world either and that doesn't stop folks from tryin'. The best they can do is the horrid state communisms & socialisms that have killed millions. Pure communism (pretty horrid on paper, to me anyay) can't work cuz it flies in the face of human nature, so these ravenous state-run strains are the best advocates can muster.

Natural rights libertarianism, on the other hand (and the minarchy that can extend out from it) is wholly in line with what humans are, how they think, what they want, which is, of course, why certain folks oppose such things and lobby hard for strains of communism. Folks in power or who crave power can't have any real power in a minarchy, but they can loads of it in the state-communism (as they supposedly work for, but never reach, pure or true communism).

Just look to history, Bruce. Liberty always increases. We've moved from pre-historic systems where few controlled many to a place where many (as individuals) largely control themselves. the path meanders and backtracks, of course, and huge numbers of folks still labor under heel, but always, in the end, mankind moves away from kings and queens and aristocracy, away from rulers and dictators and tyrants, away from centralized governance toward individual self-direction and responsibility, toward a minimizing of control, toward a diffusing of power. America is a prime example of this. Despite (not because of) America's powerful centralized government, the average individual enjoys unprecedented freedom, not as a gift from the powerful but as birthright. That so many work overtly to reduce that individual freedom (the whole of the Democrat party, the majority of the Republican party, and a nice friggin' chunk of the Libertarian party, are three examples that come to mind) sez a lot. As I say elsewhere: they trade away autonomy to supposedly preserve autonomy. Madness.

A minarchy, foundationed on natural rights, is what lies next on the hit parade. The positve inertia is at work. it can be delayed by not denied. Individuals want to be free.

As for being regressive: that you think being free is regressive sez alot about you, Bruce.

I guess bein' controlled, under heel & thumb (bein' 'safe' is how it's marketed) is 'progressvie', yeah?