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[wolf]

Originally Posted by Catwoman

Yes, I agree. It is determining whether it is murder - if there can be one kind of murder - that is the problem. Surely murder is killing with intent? It is the 'intent' bit I am interested in. Where does this come from? Can we eliminate it? We are arguing for the same side here. All that everybody wants is for crime to be significantly reduced, ultimately eliminated. It is imperative we spend more time working on root causes rather than handing out inconsequential, deconstructive and largely futile punishments that serve no more as reparation to the victim as a deterrent.

But murder isn't just murder* ...

It's murder, homicide, manslaughter, and actually a host of other legal definitions. Which you get charged with and ultimately convicted (or exonnerated) of does vary based on the circumstances of the crime.

The other guy is still dead. It's all in how you got him there.

*Note to the lazy ... the first one is a link to the legal definition of murder. The second is a link to the legal definitions of the sub-types.

[Radar]

It is imperative we spend more time working on root causes rather than handing out inconsequential, deconstructive and largely futile punishments that serve no more as reparation to the victim as a deterrent.

If the punishments were less arbitrary, they would serve as more of a deterrant, but even if they don't, at least if we get rid of the people who kill others, that's one less murderer in the world.

I am talking about genuine and uncontrollable mitigating circumstances such as genetic make-up. The 'face' of a criminal is not a new topic - if we can already be this specific surely gender must also come into it?

No, gender does not come into it. Attitudes are not gender based, they are learned through the environment when growing up. Gender is no excuse for any crime at any point ever. Those who claim it is are the same idiots who try to excuse a woman murdereing her kids due to depression, or killing her husband because she had PMS. That's utter crap! If a man were in court and said he killed his wife because he lost his job, nobody would say he should be let off.

Gender is NEVER a mitigating circumstance!

I'm not saying men are bad and women are good or the other way round. Just that we're different, like it or not, and as such should have distinct legal and social systems. Not unequal, just different.

Sorry, but there is no such thing as different but equal or separate but equal. Those are false premises. You're equal or your not. You are subject to the same laws or you're not. You've raped someone or you haven't.

As for thought police; the exact opposite of this would be total anarchy. Which would you prefer?

That's an utterly false assertion. The opposite of having thought police is not anarchy. It's order and reason and equality under the law.

If one man commits a murder because he hates Jewish people, and another does it because he likes to see the color of blood their crime is equal. It is murder. Once the court proves that either of these men committed murder, the punishment should be the same.

As wolf pointed out, there are different crimes such as murder, manslaughter, etc. If two people are found guilty of the same crime such as murder 1, they should get the same punishment regardless of their motives.

It doesn't matter why this woman slept with a 14 year old boy just as it wouldn't matter why a man slept with a 14 year old girl. Both are guilty of the exact same crime, and the gender of the attacker and victim are NOT a mitigating factor.

If you'd like an example of a mitigating factor, there was a story in the news years ago about two friends in CA who were having beers together. They ran out of beer and one guy asked the other to watch his 2 year old daughter while he went to get some more beer. When he came back he found his buddy having intercourse with his baby. He promptly beat his friend to death with his bare hands. THAT is a mitigating factor.

If it had been a woman coming home and found her friend violating her two year old son and she beat her friend to death it would be THE EXACT SAME CRIME!!!! The gender is irrelevant. The fact that they walked in and caught someone violating thier child is a mitigating factor, the gender of the child or attacker is not.