Whatever happened to the McCarthurs and the Pattons

dar512 · 12-13-2004, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

... and golly weren't things so much better before the xtians conquered all of Europe?

Kids are fun and entertaining for different reasons at different stages in their lives. [Yes, this will connect up in a moment]

One of the things I like about the current phase is that my kids are getting old enough to be studying more interesting stuff. And since I'm the one who helps them study for tests, I get to remember how all this stuff works. The oldest is getting into algebra and both are studying some neat stuff in science.

But the stuff I'm finding the most fun is their social studies. The youngest just finished working through the Tigris/Euphrates "cradle of civilization" stuff. The more I read about early history, the more convinced I am that the whole of history from hunter/gather to yesterday's newspaper is one big long power struggle.

It's comic in a way. Once we discovered/developed farming we had more time. And so we had time to develop the arts -- and tools of war.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-13-2004, 06:39 PM

Quote:

It's comic in a way. Once we discovered/developed farming we had more time. And so we had time to develop the arts -- and tools of war.

And turf to defend, half the flight or fight choice was essentially removed.

Troubleshooter · 12-14-2004, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

But the stuff I'm finding the most fun is their social studies. The youngest just finished working through the Tigris/Euphrates "cradle of civilization" stuff. The more I read about early history, the more convinced I am that the whole of history from hunter/gather to yesterday's newspaper is one big long power struggle.

I'm reading Joseph Campbell's Transformations of Myth Through Time It covers history, religion and art in one illustrated, readable book. It might help you tie it all together.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

It's comic in a way. Once we discovered/developed farming we had more time. And so we had time to develop the arts -- and tools of war.

Science is a leisure activity. Romans, chinese, greeks, egyptians, etc all developed a leisure class who didn't have to work for their food and could devote time to broadening perspectives. You have to conquer to make time for thinking, so to speak.

dar512 · 12-14-2004, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

You have to conquer to make time for thinking, so to speak.

I don't read it that way. It's farming and division of labor that creates leisure time. More than one early culture had developed arts and so forth, but didn't have the inclination for war. Then, BAM. Here come the Assyrians, or whoever, that used their leisure time to create chariots and bronze weapons.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-16-2004, 11:45 PM

They must have made better beer.

Troubleshooter · 12-17-2004, 09:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dar512

I don't read it that way. It's farming and division of labor that creates leisure time. More than one early culture had developed arts and so forth, but didn't have the inclination for war. Then, BAM. Here come the Assyrians, or whoever, that used their leisure time to create chariots and bronze weapons.

I guess I should have fleshed out the point better, sorry. The conquering cultures are the ones that end up with the time I think would be a better way of putting it. I think that the vital spark that makes a culture go to war is also going to make a culture attempt to conquer in other venues as well.

dar512 · 12-17-2004, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

I think that the vital spark that makes a culture go to war is also going to make a culture attempt to conquer in other venues as well.

That's a bit of a leap. And I don't think I buy it.

lookout123 · 12-17-2004, 11:57 AM

i don't know how it could be proven empirically, but it does make some sense. *reminder, my view of the world is that man is in perpetual conflict* societies that promote and encourage competition (conflict) do generally achieve greater achievements within their culture and that could potentially spill over into the relations with neighboring cultures.

interesting. that really is the argument of capitalism vs. socialism.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-18-2004, 04:55 PM

I think it would be easier to make a case for Fundies or people from colder climes being aggressive.

12-16-2004, 11:45 PM	#5
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	They must have made better beer. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

12-17-2004, 11:57 AM	#8
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	i don't know how it could be proven empirically, but it does make some sense. reminder, my view of the world is that man is in perpetual conflict societies that promote and encourage competition (conflict) do generally achieve greater achievements within their culture and that could potentially spill over into the relations with neighboring cultures. interesting. that really is the argument of capitalism vs. socialism. __________________ Getting knocked down is no sin, it's not getting back up that's the sin

12-18-2004, 04:55 PM	#9
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I think it would be easier to make a case for Fundies or people from colder climes being aggressive. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

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