5/3/2005: Korea at night

[tw]

Originally Posted by Beestie

Wow, tw, I had no idea that North Korea was so misunderstood.

Posted was commonly known. So commonly known that Carter got the Nobel Peace Prize for his part in the negotiations.

Did you hear what reporters are being told, off the record, by N Korean diplomats as they announced the shutdown and removal of those plutonium laced rods? They keep asking, "What will it take for the US government to negotiate with us in earnest?" The world understands these facts quite well. Unfortunately neighbors such as Japan figure the new US hardline position will not change. "If he is not a friend, then he can only be an enemy" concept. Japanese have been quietly gearing the world's second largest military (measured in dollars) for protection from a war in N Korea they fear to be inevitable.

Many don't know that Japan has a military that large. Many are so ill informed as to think Japan has a tiny if not no military. They would also have no idea of Kim Jung Il's ill-fated attempt to reform his nation.

Kim Jung Il is working within narrow constraints. The power brokers in his country cannot be ignored. But they also have little idea (as Kim does) of how the world really works. Kim Jung Il is in the same position as Assad of Syria. Both have narrow constraints that keep them in power. Both came to power with the intent of reforming their countries. Both are learning what they can and cannot do - and why their fathers were so ruthless.

[glatt]

Anyway, back to the image. There is a diagonal line that appears between two areas of differing levels of brightness. This is an "artifact" of the camera or the image processing and does not show lights that exist on the ground. If this type of artifact exists in the image, there could be others that make the North seem darker than it really is. (See my diagonal yellow line below, and compare it to the original image.)

I'm not saying North Korea has as many lights as the South. I know it's a backwards-ass country with little electricity. I just think the image looks fake. It looks more fake compared to the other two images posted, which do show the capital city.

There is a hint of light on the coast near the south by the arrow I drew.

[glatt]

Here's an image of North Korea at night that does not appear fake to me (top one.) It shows a few city lights, it shows a brightly lit DMZ, it shows lights in surrounding countries that appear to be dark in today's IOD above. This is was I expected North Korea to look like.

OK, I'll stop ranting and raving now.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by glatt

Here's an image of North Korea at night that does not appear fake to me (top one.) It shows a few city lights, it shows a brightly lit DMZ, it shows lights in surrounding countries that appear to be dark in today's IOD above. This is was I expected North Korea to look like.

OK, I'll stop ranting and raving now.

The bottom one in that link is the same image UT posted. In the center between the two is a comparison showing the NK capitol lit up in '96 but not in '01.
If you're right and it is a fake, who's faking it and why?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Karenv

"IOW I don't understand your point."

The difference between the original picture submitted by UT and the pics with some light could be due to time of day and just having dim lighting. Why assume that it is doctored when there are simpler explanations?

So why are lights in the Korea Straits off in the water adjacent to the island of Tsushima? Why does the ocean have more lights than the adjacent island of Tsushima? Why are there lights as bright as in Seoul located at 36 degrees N, 130 degrees East in the East Sea (Sea of Japan) off the city of Pohang? No land mass (island) exists there. Why are there bright lights in the Yellow Sea off the city of Gimpo and Incheon (west of Seoul)? How does time of day cause bright lights to appear where only ocean should exist? I don't understand your point. What does time of day have to do with lights where no human civilization should exist?

Those lights don't appear in a picture provided by xoxoxoBruce and in a new photo provided by UT. So what created lights where no land masses exist? Time of day?

[russotto]

The lights in the water are boats.

[glatt]

Here's another image and an explanation of the lights in the water.

Take a look at Japan and South Korea, brightly lit up. Contrast the latter to North Korea, the border between the two being clearly demarked where the light stops at the 38th parallel. Do you see the light blue in the waters surrounding Japan and South Korea? This represents large floodlights employed by the fishing fleet at night, to draw squid and other sea creatures to the surface where they can easily be caught. This is the sign of fisheries on the brink of collapse. Similar lights can be seen off the coast of China and in a few other spots in the other images.

[tw]

Originally Posted by glatt

Here's another image and an explanation of the lights in the water.

The fishing fleets create lights greater than or equal to the light output in cities of millions? Look at North Korea where 5 megawatts is a significant electricity. Notice the little amount of light. Look at the South Korean cities where the electric consumption is thousands of megawatts.

What ships are lightning the ocean even with 5 megawatts? If the lit ocean areas were not so large (the size of P'yongyang in N Korea), then I might appreciate that explanation. But the numbers necessary to light up such large areas just cannot be accounted for by a fishing fleet. Its just too much electricity and in multiple ocean areas that are too large. One fishing fleet lights an ocean area the size of Seoul and its suburbs? If the generators on those boats are that large, then where do they store the day's catch?

Remember, I am questioning the validity of the first photo posted by UT. Those other photos don't show all those lights offshore. And those other photos show he islands in the Korea straights properly illuminated only on land- not in the Straits.

[russotto]

The diagonal line is probably a seam between images from successive passes.

It looks to me like this image deliberately excludes everything outside of S. Korea, though. China should be lit, and Pyongyang as well.

[chrisinhouston]

Having never been to Japan I have to wonder if they ever turn any of their lights off at night? Seems to be the brightest spot on the planet!