Ecologically-friendly nuclear

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by Brianna

It would be cool if we could harnass tw's insanity for good instead of evil.

Personally, I like some of his stuff. He's certainly more rational than most of the talking heads I see on MSNBC and, god-forbid, Fox. He also does his own research , something which puts him above Ann Coulter and ilk.

I wouldn't mind seeing a few TW matchups on some of those talk shows.

TW vs Robert Lutz - Vice Chairman, Product Developement and Chairman of GM North America

TW vs John Marburger - Director, White House Office of Science and Technology Policy

TW vs Sen Bill Frist

Rock on, TW!

BTW, interesting tidbit. Development can be written as developement. Here I was thinking GM had screwed up again.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Right on Rich, don't for one minute sell TW short. He's no fool and he's right in that all the power produced goes into the grid like the ingredients of a casserole.
I'm just pointing out most of the power produced in the Cellars immediate area is non-fossil. The actual power the Cellar gets at any one time could be coming from Canada, so watch out for pages coming up in French.

Btw, if you want to have more money than Bill Gates, invent a practical way to store electricity. We could run the whole damn world on lightning.

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Btw, if you want to have more money than Bill Gates, invent a practical way to store electricity. We could run the whole damn world on lightning.

Well, trapping and harnessing lightning would take large capacitors. One alternative would be attaching generators to 2 million hamsters on exercise wheels. The lightning would frighten the hamsters, causing the wheels to spin faster and generate more electricity. The advantages of this method is that it merely requires proximity to lightning and the effect would outlast the short burst of energy from the lightning itself.

Now where's that DOE grant request form.....

[tw]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I'm just pointing out most of the power produced in the Cellars immediate area is non-fossil. The actual power the Cellar gets at any one time could be coming from Canada, so watch out for pages coming up in French.

To get non-fossil sources, one must go out to what I described as the third layer. Outside of the third layer are more coal plants, nuclear, natural gas, and wind power plants.

PJM now purchases and monitors power from sources in VA, WV, OH, IN, IL, and upper NY State. Dominion Power of VA is the latest addition to the PJM. Exelon also generates power on the Mississippi River, New England, and other places that are too far (electrically) to be considered power for the Cellar. Also not included in that list are power plants in places such as N Jersey that would really be providing power mostly for that region and NYC.

PJM has a bottlneck when it buys power from OH, IN, WV, etc. the interconnection is not very good. Just one reason why plants in MD (such as the nuclear plant at Calvert Cliffs are not included in the list of UT's electricity.

The chart is accurate for UTs electrical supplier because most of his closest generator plants are fossil fuel powered.

[xoxoxoBruce]

One more point...when you buy "wind generated" power, the power you get probably won't be actually be made by a wind generator(turbine) unless you're real close to the wind farm. Even then it's a variable supply depending on...well...the wind.
What you are buying is wind generated power to be slipped into the grid to replace some power that now won't be fossil fuel generated.
You're still doing a good thing, it's just globally or at least regionally rather than locally.

[russotto]

Electricity is fungible. There's no practical way to know whether the electrons you're harnessing get their juice from the big nuke plant up the street, or the Conowingo dam or whatever.

However:

Power companies don't transmit power long distances if they don't have to. Limerick is an enormous plant and it's right in the Cellar's (and my) back yard. It stands to reason that the vast majority of the power running the Cellar (not to mention my own laptop) is coming from the nuclear plant. So unless you've got specific information otherwise, region-wide information (covering 50,000 square miles in 5 states and D.C.) simply doesn't refute that claim.

When you come home from work every day to a scene from the opening of _The Simpsons_, you know where your power is coming from.


As for natural gas, current prices make such plants unattractive propositions.

[tw]

Originally Posted by russotto

As for natural gas, current prices make such plants unattractive propositions.

If that were true, then why are most every new plant listed in the NERC coming online (for the Mid Atlantic and NY regions) using natural gas?

[Troubleshooter]

Because nobody wants to authorize a new nuclear plant.

That's the debil.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

If that were true, then why are most every new plant listed in the NERC coming online (for the Mid Atlantic and NY regions) using natural gas?

We're going to get lots of natural gas from Alaska as soon as we displace the critters and Colorado as soon as we displace the hippies.

[tw]

Originally Posted by richlevy

I wouldn't mind seeing a few TW matchups on some of those talk shows.

I would lose, hands down, in those talk shows. I cannot say something unless I first have sufficient supporting evidence. This thread is typical. Long ago remembered UT claiming his electricity was all nuclear. I had that above list of power plants. But that list alone was not yet sufficient information. A chart finally obtained from the NERC demonstrates UT's mistake. Numbers required to demonstrate that UT was only speculating - did not first learn the facts.

I don't talk like Rush Limbaugh: make half baked claims without numbers and supporting facts. Posts are longer - no sound bytes - when reasons for 'why' are also included. The 'Rush Limbaugh' technique is to keep running - keep changing the discussion - so that 'real world' facts, numbers, and other details never get presented. An effective propaganda technique that keeps one like me silent.

Some foolishly say, "Rush says what had to be said". They forget a Rush statement is 'quick and move on' so that research and numbers arrive too late. It takes time to first find the details behind a Rush Limbaugh statement, then find the real world details, and then organize those details so that eyes do not glaze over. Rush knows that many of us don't first wait for and demand numbers. Too many instead believe the first thing we are told. Exactly why propaganda and junk science reasoning are so effective.

It took about 4 months to find a chart for UT's electricity. In a Rush Limbaugh discussion, that chart would never be presented. Reality provided by numbers takes longer.

Political types, in verbal discussions, would run all over me. Too many people believe those who only provide 'sound bytes' - never provide the supporting facts. Propaganda promoters are good at sound bytes, half truths, propaganda, and changing the topic before details are sufficiently examined. But the devil is in those details. Same details also demonstrated Saddam's WMDs were not as the President claimed. As more numbers appeared, then those aluminum tubes were for cloning an Italian rocket called Medusa - not for processing uranium. Better to just claim uranium was from Niger, then out a CIA agent, then claim Saddam had an intercontinental missile system in development, then claim bio-chemical weapons, then claim Al Qaeda was working with Saddam, etc - so that numbers and real world facts never get presented. Lie after lie presented fast enough means the numbers and other details never get learned.

UT's electricity is not mostly nuclear. UT assumed otherwise because he knew Limerick existed. He did not even learn how Limerick electricity gets to his home. Limerick electricity must first pass through Cromby - a coal, oil, and natural gas plant- to get to UT. His electricity would only be nuclear if the multiple plants at Cromby first did not meet his electricity demands. Another fact he did not first learn.

It takes time to first learn the details. UT did not first learn the numbers. He assumed and then declared that all his electricity is nuclear generated. He used Rush Limbaugh logic. Even Lookout123 (routinely) chimes in (in classic Rush Limbaugh tradition) by posting insults; provides no numbers and no facts. One would think my name was Hilary.

I stand criticized for not providing the facts and numbers soon enough. To many, that would be sufficient for talking heads to win an argument. To a majority, only the first statement is accurate. It demonstrates why propaganda is so effective and why I would lose to those talking heads.