Have gas prices affected you?

[Bullitt]

Guess that depends on the gas prices in the particular area, and how far/what kind of driving is done. I wonder how all that extra weight affects mileage/performance during regular (non electric) engine operation, the wear on your tires, your brakes, suspension, etc. Car batteries aren't light.

[Troubleshooter]

Prices aren't just affecting our driving.

I just got my light bill.

Actual usage: $65

Fuel Adjustment: $75

[mricytoast]

I want to get one of those bio-diesel cars. There was something in National Geographic about it, it's around 60-80 MPG and it costs about 8 dollars to fill up the car's tank for a month.

[Troubleshooter]

Originally Posted by mricytoast

I want to get one of those bio-diesel cars. There was something in National Geographic about it, it's around 60-80 MPG and it costs about 8 dollars to fill up the car's tank for a month.

What they probably didn't tell you is how much it really costs to produce bio deisel and the associated subsidies and such.

http://www.eia.doe.gov/oiaf/analysispaper/biodiesel/

[Cyclefrance]

Originally Posted by Troubleshooter

What they probably didn't tell you is how much it really costs to produce bio deisel and the associated subsidies and such.

Forget bio-diesel - hydrogen fuel cell technology is advancing, with eco-friendly production of hydrogen from ethanol cost-effectively (derived from sugar beet) - if you want proof then take a look at this prototype bike - ENV (spec available via link to pdf) - looks reasonably interesting.....

[tw]

Originally Posted by Cyclefrance

Forget bio-diesel - hydrogen fuel cell technology is advancing, with eco-friendly production of hydrogen from ethanol cost-effectively

As was posted previously, fundamental science demonstrates that hydrogen as a fuel is not possible. Hydrogen has too little energy per pound and requires too much energy to deliver. Basic science numbers demonstrate that hydorgen as a fuel would result in something like 80% loss of energy by the time that fuel gets to the vehicle.

Curious that GM management is pushing hydrogen since GM top management is devoid of technical competance. The realities of science says hydrogen is a lousy fuel for too many reasons. But then GM also created the EV-1. Then outright lies about its numbers such as range. The real world range for EV-1 (the all electric car) was about 60 miles. GM would not even let EV-1 designers use anything but lead acid batteries because GM did not make batteries of other technologies. This is the same GM that says hydrogen is the future? "Fool me once- shame on you. Fool me tens of times ... at what point do I finally get it?"

Hydrogen has other interesting and practical applications. Batteries based upon hydrogen look particularly promising. No other fuel has the energy per pound numbers that petroleum provides. Those numbers damn hydrogen as a totally impractical fuel. Again, seek that recent and previous discussion here about hydrogen.

[Cyclefrance]

Originally Posted by tw

As was posted previously, fundamental science demonstrates that hydrogen as a fuel is not possible.

Will check out the thread you mention, but will also take the risky route of replying first.

Situations change over time. Did you check the links I gave? When there is motivation to do so money gets invested to research and improve. Wars generally do that, but so can extreme eceonomic conditions - North Sea oil wouldn't have happened without the '73 oil crisis which caused the cost of deep-sea wells/drilling to become viable. The structures needed to support this activity were then developed as the cost justified it.

There are lots of other examples like IBM mainframes of the 70's (that required their own dedicated rooms to operate) to PDAs of the 90's. Had you been around in the 70's (were you?) there is no way that you would have agreed that a computer with the same processing power would be available hand-held size within 20 years.

The current developments with the ENV bike (range 100 miles currently and a top speed of 50mph - inventors say this will/can increase), the portable fuel cell pack that goes with it, the hydrogen production unit that is no bigger than a shoe box and also the development of ethanol production from sugar beet, corn, wheat, barley and other crops seem to suggest that this is now heading in the right direction and that the advances mentioned are providing the kick-start needed. And let's not forget the bike is a British invention (is there a way to attach music to these posts - a bit of Elgar might fit nicely at this point?)

Also have a look at this article about a heat and compression driven process plant (damnation - it's American) that has been built and that will turn various items (like old computers and turkey remains) into fuel. Process claims to streamline and accelerate the same processes that our planet takes to produce coal to permit old waste/rubbish to be converted in hours rather than millions of years. At last, a useful home for all those Thanksgiving dinner leftovers!

Will search out earlier Hydrogen discussion now - can you point me in the right direction?

[xoxoxoBruce]

So, future Harleys wil say po-tat-o, po-tat-o when they need fuel?

[Cyclefrance]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

So, future Harleys wil say po-tat-o, po-tat-o when they need fuel?

Harleys say po-tarht-o, Triumphs say Po-tayt-o.

BTW I work in the area of the shipping market that moves vegoils and chems in bulk. The amount of ethanol moving now is well on the increase. Palm oils of the quality to create bio-fuels are also going the same way. As usual when the market gets over excited about a new use for its commodities, it over-reacts, as was the case last winter, and so there are still plenty of stocks of the stuff in north west Europe storage (sourced mainly from S.America and Far East for Palm oils). Reports of heavy government investment in Europe and the States in all such areas of alternative energy probably has a lot to do with the bubble that's arisen