Are We Looking at Anarchy in New Orleans?

[Griff]

I don't think we're looking at anarchy in New Orleans. We are looking at government failure in the extreme.

Folks in the Big Easy have lived under the impression that they were being looked after by the Army Corp of Engineers with backup from Local, State, and Federal government. The Engineers knew what needed to be done but they couldn't get the resources to do it. This is a direct result of placing an urgent need before the most remote level of government. It looked like a good idea when they were passing the cost off on the rest of the country but it obviously wasn't since the rest of the country didn't see it as a priority, it was too remote from them. The people of New Orleans were given a false sense of security because the believed that government would take care of them. Considering the level of corruption in the State it is suprising to us on the outside that they could harbor such beliefs, but they probably assumed that corruption would be limited to non-life-threatening areas, now they know better.

We are looking at the result of government intervention not the lack of it. Transitioning to anarchy would be ugly like this but actual anarchy could be far better. At this minute, I'm with the minarchists, have the government do the things that need to be done, like diaster relief, but avoid growing a bureaucracy that stupidily prevents real need from being addressed. Keeping responsibility as local as possible would have helped this stuation. Each level of government has been pushing responsibility up the ladder toward, in this case, someone who doesn't give a shit.

[russotto]

What we're looking at is desert-island anarchy. Anarchy doesn't work so well on a desert island. Then again, neither does government.

While anarchy ala New Orleans has little appeal for me (or, I suspect, for anyone else, either), I'm darn near ready to join Radar in over-throwing the current federal government. Its gotten us into a very expensive, highly questionable foreign war, negelected the country's infra-sturcture so the New Orleans disaster could be notched up a few levels of magnitude, completely botched the rescue of our own people, and probably set us up to have a very nice economic recession starting any second now. We'd have been better off with no federal government at all which I think is sort of what Griff is saying.

[OnyxCougar]

John Titor said we'd enter a civil war in the last part of 2005.

Perhaps this is the catalyst?

[richlevy]

Originally Posted by marichiko

I'm darn near ready to join Radar in over-throwing the current federal government.

Now that is a strange mental image. I'm guessing the alliance would last until you succeeded, and the factional fighting would start the next day.


BTW, the "Let's not turn this into politics, but FYI we did everything right and the other guys were wrong." statements have already started. At this point Karl is desperately searching the Internet for pictures of the head of the Corps of Engineers screwing a sheep so that he has something to discredit him when the fact comes out of what was recommended versus what was actually funded.

It does look like the Corps was preparing, but were waiting on FEMA. The $100 billion dollar question is who or what held them back.

From here

Corps Prepares for Hurricane Katrina

In anticipation of Hurricane Katrina making landfall along the north-central Gulf Coast near New Orleans, the Mississippi Valley Division (MVD), U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, based in Vicksburg, Mississippi, began preparations Friday to support hurricane response operations.

"Right now, we are tracking the path of Katrina," said David Sills, Chief of the MVD Emergency Operations Center. "MVD’s primary mission in response to hurricane threats is supporting the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) emergency operations. Last year MVD personnel responded to four major hurricanes, so we've got a good idea how tough this mission will be if Katrina hits the Mississippi or Louisiana Gulf Coast."

"I am proud of our employees and their spirit of service in a time a need," said Brig. Gen. Robert Crear, Mississippi Valley Division commander. "Team members are all volunteers, some of whom have just recently returned from service in Iraq."

With an estimated 500 Corps personnel still deployed in support of the Global War on Terror, it will require an even larger contingent of Corps personnel to support emergency operations if Katrina comes ashore in our area of responsibility as a Category 4 or 5 hurricane. Anticipating potential requirements to pump water out of New Orleans, the Corps has begun discussions with partners to preposition assets to conduct un-watering operations should Katrina strike the southern Louisiana and New Orleans area.

And while still not knowing the exact path Katrina will settle on, MVD planners are not standing by and guessing what assets will be needed. The Corps has teams that are trained and ready to move into impacted areas with necessary support like ice, water, temporary power, housing and roofing, and debris removal. The division is posturing elements of the response plan from as far away as Hawaii so that it can most quickly react either to a strike on New Orleans or other parts of the Gulf Coast.

"Teams from our six districts and other districts in the U.S. are trained, rehearsed and ready to move into the area with FEMA and state emergency management teams as soon as practical," said Crear. "We also want to make sure our employees and their families are safe while providing continuity of operations."

The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers conducts its emergency response activities under two basic authorities: the Flood Control and Coastal Emergency Act (P.L. 84-99, as amended) and the Stafford Disaster and Emergency Assistance Act (P.L. 93-288, as amended). Under the Stafford Act, the Corps supports the Federal Emergency Management Agency in carrying out the National Response Plan, which calls on 26 Federal departments and agencies to provide coordinated disaster relief and recovery operations.

The Mississippi Valley Division has a primary role in support of the National Response Plan. The plan describes the basic structure by which the federal government will mobilize resources and conduct response and recovery activities to assist states and local governments in coping with the consequences of significant natural or man-made disasters, to include terrorist events.

Within this plan, the Department of Defense has designated the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers as the primary agency for planning, preparedness and response under the Emergency Support Function #3, Public Works and Engineering. The type of assistance provided by the Corps includes restoration of critical public services and facilities, including supply of adequate amounts of potable water and ice, temporary restoration of water supply systems, provision of temporary emergency electrical power, temporary emergency housing, structural evaluation of buildings and damage assessment, and clearance, removal, and disposal of debris.

The Mississippi Valley Division is responsible for emergency preparedness and developing plans for all hazards response. In addition, each of its six districts has a specific primary mission assignment for execution in support of FEMA under the National Response Plan. These missions are executed by a Planning and Response Team trained specifically for the assigned mission. These teams may respond within the Mississippi Valley area or may be deployed worldwide.

MVD includes portions of 12 states and encompasses 370,000 square miles.

The district offices that conduct the programs and activities overseen by the Mississippi Valley Division are located in St. Paul, Minn.; Rock Island, Ill.; St. Louis, Mo.; Memphis, Tenn.; Vicksburg, Miss.; and New Orleans, La.

Originally Posted by richlevy

Now that is a strange mental image. I'm guessing the alliance would last until you succeeded, and the factional fighting would start the next day.

LOL! If not sooner!

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Look for them to rebuild on pretty much the same site, maybe just maybe with grade improvements, though probably not over all the flooded area, and perhaps more autonomous pumping stations with either their own power or power supplies designed to be uninterruptible by water.

Houses on stilts tend to be in places that aren't prone to hurricane or typhoon, so I'm not sure how that would work out. Go stilting the buildings in the Mississippi Delta and you'd have to design them to resist high wind as well as high water. I end up thinking welded structural steel.

[SmartAZ]

I think you should all go look up what anarchy means. This country ran very smoothly in a state of anarchy for 257 years, counting from the first colony in 1507 to the publication of Common Sense by Thomas Paine in 1764. During that time the people prospered greatly, maintained peace, and defended their borders even against very powerful foes. The bible describes a peiod of about the same duration when the hebrews lived in anarchy with similar results.

Since some of you won't bother to click on http://dictionary.com and type in "anarchy", I will explain it: anarchy means "without leaders". The problem in New Orleans, and in the nation as well, is that we DO have leaders and they aren't worthy of our trust. Well, what else could we expect? Barry Goldwater was the last presidential candidate with good character, and he got trounced. The party leaders are not stupid; they will not make that mistake again.

[dar512]

That's one definition. M-W also defines anarchy as "a state of lawlessness or political disorder due to the absence of governmental authority".

[BigV]

Originally Posted by SmartAZ

... Barry Goldwater was the last presidential candidate with good character, and he got trounced. The party leaders are not stupid; they will not make that mistake again.

You're still sore that Clinton's impeachment didn't pass the Senate, aren't you? Here, have Pepto-Bismol.

[Tonchi]

Barry Goldwater was the last presidential candidate with good character, and he got trounced.

You have overlooked Jimmy Carter, the presidential example of "no good deed goes unpunished" by politicians and the electorate. Fortunately, this gentleman is having the last laugh.

[SmartAZ]

Jimmy Carter was a nice guy and underappreciated, but I never percieved him as having a strong character.

[Happy Monkey]

I don't know what you mean by strong, but everything he's done since being President (ie, while I've been aware of him) has shown a very good character.

Carter is actually a decent poet, too. No wonder he got treated the way he did! I'd say he has incredible strength of character. I met him once. It was at a book signing at the The Tattered Cover Bookstore in Denver. Everyone was going up politely to have their books signed and when it came my turn, I said to Carter, "You are the president I most admire! God bless you!" And I stuck out my hand to President Carter to the mild consternation of his secret service guys. Jimmy just grinned and reached out his hand in return to shake mine and I got a personal inscription on my book - not just a signature!

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by SmartAZ

... I never percieved him as having a strong character.

Yeah, well, Ronald Regan WAS perceived as having a strong character by the great unwashed masses and his political cronies as well, yet now it comes out that he probably had Alzheimers for the greater part of his administration. Does that mean that perceptions are everything when determining somebody's character? Or do actions not become apparent until the heat of the spotlight is off you?