10/15/2005: Monk protection

[BigV]

Originally Posted by mlandman

Still think it's a stupid stupid point?

Yeah.

Your legitimate concerns that terrorists need to be stopped, controlled, have new policies considered are shared by me and by all reasonable people. We differ, however, when you say "Islam is responsible". I disagree.

There is no central control mechanism in Islam, there is no discrete "THEY" responsible, or able to get something in order. For every Catholic priest whose actions tar the image of the Catholic church, there are many more who are equally appalled at the situation, just as non priests, even non Catholics are. When terrorists commit their crimes, every reasonable person is scandalized and outraged. Including muslims. Including Imams.

Even your example of a million employee company, which you headed, that had 50,000 criminals is flawed. Obviously, "your" company would be "your" responsibility, and you would have both the authority and the responsibility to take action. I've already pointed out that there's no Pope of Islam, in charge, that can lay down the law. Furthermore, your numbers are ridiculously off. There are well over a Billion muslims in the world, and that would put your 5% of bad apples at 50 million plus. The entire population of Iraq is about 25 million. I don't think your figure is close. Even say, 1%, 10 million terrorists, is ridiculously high. I'm just blue skying here, but an easy number, an extremely generously high number would be perhaps, ONE million "Islamic" terrorists. How many is that? How many more muslims are NOT terrorists? 99.9% percent are not terrorists. Yeah, these are back of the envelope numbers, but I don't think I'm underestimating the number of "Islamic" terrorists. I'm probably overestimating the number of terrorists that take action in the way you're talking about.

So, yeah. I DO think it's stupid to let the tiniest fraction of people define the group. It's not a very homogenous group to begin with, and every muslim I've ever talked to says that the actions done "in the name of Islam" say that it is a lie.

Originally Posted by mlandman

We all know that not all who follow Islam are terrorists.

Yes, we do know that. And in the next breath you contradict yourself.

Originally Posted by mlandman

However, it's time they got their SHIT UNDER CONTROL. As of right now, I completely associate Islam with suicide bombings, and terrorism.

You make that association because that's how it's portrayed in the media. You could be a more discerning consumer of the media and you would come to a different conclusion.

***Set apart for emphasis***

I completely associate Islam with suicide bombings, and terrorism.

There is a LOT missing from your association here. Islam is not about terrorism. Talk to people, read for yourself. Use your judgement Compare and contrast what you hear and read. Consider the source and their possible motivations. It is remotely possible that you could find your conclusions unchanged. Fine. You did the work to understand the issues. But I think it is far far more likely that you'll learn that there's more to Islam than suicide bombings and terrorism. Don't believe the hype.

[mlandman]

You are ALL missing my point.

The association is there. Period. I'm not defending it, advocating it. If you don't think Islam (And yes, while there is no 'pope' there are grand poobahs) as an entity should do one thing about it, great. Head in sand.

[John]

Originally Posted by mlandman

The association is there. Period. I'm not defending it, advocating it. If you don't think Islam (And yes, while there is no 'pope' there are grand poobahs) as an entity should do one thing about it, great. Head in sand.

So, why don't you hold all Baptists responsible for Phelps, Terry, Robertson, and the KKK? Sure, there's no Baptist "pope", but there are grand poobahs. Why haven't Baptists, as the single entity they so *obviously* are to you, done something about the repugnant actions of a small minority of Baptists?