The Apocalypse Continued...

[Griff]

French riots spread outside Paris

EPINAY-SOUS-BOIS, France (Reuters) - Violence erupted in the poor suburbs of northeastern Paris for a ninth consecutive night on Friday as youths set fire to cars and buildings despite a heavy police presence in riot-hit areas.

hmm... Exactly how screwed is Europe?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Yay, first vote into the box.

Riots in slums tend to be self-limiting, rather than the spark that ignites a revolution.

Well, first of all,the article is about France, not all of Europe.

Second of all, two torched buildings and a few cars would be a quiet night in, say, NYC or LA.

I think Europe has a ways to go yet.

[Griff]

Ha! Mari and UG agree on something! You both must be wrong

[slang]

[sarcasm]Bush isnt leading Europe (yet) so they cant be all that screwed. [/sarcasm]

[xoxoxoBruce]

Good start.

[Fleur]

Bird flu is starting to look GOOD.

Originally Posted by Griff

Ha! Mari and UG agree on something! You both must be wrong

As UG just reminded me in another thread, he and I both once agreed on something once before. I believe it had to do with the desirability of weapons for self defense.

At any rate, we both managed to get over it.

Perhaps you are being just a tad too apocalyptic when both the right wing nuts and the commie nuts disagree with you.

[tw]

Rioting in Paris Suburbs Continues for a Ninth Night
The violence has isolated the country's tough-talking anticrime interior minister, Nicolas Sarkozy, whom some people blame for having made the situation worse with his blunt statements about "cleaning out" the "thugs" from these neighborhoods.

France has been grappling for years with growing unrest among its second- and third-generation immigrants, mostly North African Arabs, who have faced decades of high unemployment and marginalization. Critics say Mr. Sarkozy's confrontational approach has polarized the communities and the government. ...

Mishandling of street violence has tainted France's political right before. The death of a young French-Algerian man after a beating by police during student demonstrations in December 1986 ...

Notice what happens when hard line extremists take charge. In Israel, it created the murder of Rabin and a second Intafada. In South Asia, an extremist Indian government took India and Pakistan literally to within hours of a nuclear war. In Paris, well, even when American cities were burning in the 1960s, it did not continue for nine days which suggest how hard line the French government has become.

These are natural and predictable responses when extremists justify their brutality by political rhetoric rather than first learn reality. Even torture is a good thing. Just ask George Jr - extremist who is told by god what to do. Gitmoize Abu Ghraid, and then blame the enlisted men for doing it. Like Pinochet in Chile and Milosevic in the Balkan, even torture is approved by conservative extremists because, "only we know what the truth is and you can't handle it".

Well, better people have said otherwise. The Senate's 90 to 9 vote supporting a McCain amendment - voted for in direct opposition voiced by conservative extremist Cheney - now makes George Jr torture illegal.

Meanwhile, Paris is still burning thanks to extremist hardline conservatives who just know those people must be evil.

Nobody expected the Spanish Inquisition ... for the same reasons. Clearly those other people needed to be saved from themselves - even in Paris. We just need to put more troops on the street. BTW, same applies to Baghdad. Extremist conservative rhetoric proves might makes right.

Maybe someone should first ask some simple questions such as what is the problem? Unfortunately, when political rhetoric becomes fact, then violence, including an almost nuclear war, results.

[Elspode]

Why is all of this symbolic of some political thing? Are we pretty sure it isn't just a bunch of assholes out fucking shit up because they can? I know it works that way after the NBA finals here in America.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by marichiko

Perhaps you are being just a tad too apocalyptic when both the right wing nuts and the commie nuts disagree with you.

Actually my vote goes in the not screwed bin. I've just been dwelling on media hype for non or minor issues that gets us more government solutions, that are generally worse than the problems they are purported to solve. an example would be Bush getting in front of the media's bird-flu scheme. Now he can funnel your dollars to whichever outfits he wants... List the media scares presently being pimped, every one of them leads to your pocket book. Speaking of government solutions, did I mention that the Feds protect the over-populated Canada goose which could be carrying the flu to a pond near you? You won't be choosing which fear to bet on, Brother Bush will do it for you. If it were Kerry he'd do the same adjusted for party backers.

[Tonchi]

Actually, I am more amused by news like this instead of thinking it is a sign of the complete breakdown of European security (I still think Europe is pretty screwed, as opposed to totally screwed like the USA). What news like this proves is that all the hypocracy and self-righteousness France may pour on us for our "civil rights problems" and "social inequities shown up by Katrina" is absurd. Right now, they have twice the problem with being over run by Third World Muslims than the US ever had with our African-Americans. They have more illegal Turks and Algerians than we have illegal Mexicans, and the resulting crime waves around the French capitol are far more extreme than our illegals, who only want to stay unnoticed and work. Hooray for France, they are experts at screwing themselves

[wolf]

But they have legislated the purity of their language, and make fairly decent, if overpriced, wines.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

Actually, I am more amused by news like this instead of thinking it is a sign of the complete breakdown of European security

There exists far more here than most Americans realize. But to keep it simple, only one point is presented and one question asked:

from ABC News
The violence originally concentrated in neighborhoods northeast of Paris with large immigrant populations has spread across France, extending west to the rolling fields of Normandy and south to resort cities on the Mediterranean. Attacks were reported in Cannes and Nice.

Is this an isolated regional incident? Of course not. France has some very serious political problems which is why violence extends across France AND why violence remains ongoing for so many days. France has an outright fear of and denial about globalisation. A fear that extends from how individuals are treated all the way to how France perverts world trade in favor of their own agricultural industry.

Ask yourself. Is your (American) political bias is any different?

[Tonchi]

I agree with you, but I was bringing up this same situation on this forum earlier in the year, re: the article in Vanity Fair about the exploding and explosive condition of unchecked immigration from Muslim countries and how the "real" French are very nervous about the overlaying or replacement of what "culture" the world has associated with France since the Middle Ages. They have a serpent by the tail now, they can't let go of it and they can't get rid of it either.

The Vanity Fair article also pointed out that the recent upswing in anti-Semitism and destruction of Jewish property and synagogues in France, which is giving France a black eye in international organizations which they belong to, is directly attributable to the growing percentage of Muslims there, who will not accept that they live in a secular country now and that kind of hate is not permitted.