Merry F'in Christmas - I want a divorce.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-15-2005, 10:28 PM

Well done, Beestie.

Quote:

She tried to transfer responsibility to him by bringing up every reason in the book - he doesn't make enough money, he isn't this, he isn't that, blah, blah, blah. He never understood why she never told him any of this during the 20 years they were married and raised two kids.

Good point. No matter what his shortcomings have been in the past, if she hasn't at least brought them up for discussion, they are moot.

I hear people talking about how they, or their friends, were blindsided, and lament the past xx years being taken away. But that's not true..... nothing chages the past. It's the future, that you've been planning, working toward, looking forward to, that's being snatched away. You've been suddenly voted off the island and have to start over toward a new goal. That always sucks.

12-16-2005, 01:36 AM

First of all, I hope the entire thing was just some temporary bout of insanity on Mrs. L's part. I hope the entire thing has already blown over, but if not:

YAY, Beestie! Great words of wisdom in your post! I, too, have been there. My last relationship of 6 years ended with the most amazing dissonance and betrayal. In my case, I had unwittingly become involved with a very slick con artist who seemed so real at the time. One morning I woke up and he had left for someone else along with over 20,000 of my money unaccounted for. It makes a girl's head spin, and I suspect it would any guy's, too, if he were subjected to the same treatment.

I consider you my worthy opponent on many other matters, Lookout, but in this matter, if that's what it comes down to, I am 100% on your side! I'm a girl, too, and me the other members of the female persuasion around here can give you lots of insight into how a woman's mind can work and give you plenty of support and deadly ammo, should you need it.

I so hope you won't need it! But if you do, count me on your side on this one. Its just wrong!

Hemlock · 12-16-2005, 11:51 AM

The only question I have - and perhaps it shows my ignorance of human behavior - is why do people engage in such destructive behaviors?

We as humans can think, and although sometimes we do not, we have the power to overcome our more "primitive" instincts.

No idea here. I guess people are just jerks, and unwilling to change.

Brett's Honey · 12-16-2005, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hemlock

The only question I have - and perhaps it shows my ignorance of human behavior - is why do people engage in such destructive behaviors?

We as humans can think, and although sometimes we do not, we have the power to overcome our more "primitive" instincts.

No idea here. I guess people are just jerks, and unwilling to change.

And sometimes they are very selfish.

limey · 12-16-2005, 04:48 PM

Lookout? How are you doing?

lookout123 · 12-17-2005, 12:03 AM

not doing well at all. she went to the first counseling session on her own and came back with good words. she promised that she will be 100% committed to seeing if this will work. the problem is that she has already decided that it can't work, so she has only committed to seeing it to that end. i will see the guy on tuesday for my session, so we'll see how it goes.

we just had a heartbreaking 90 minute conversation about the issue and it is absolutely apparent that her mind is made up even if she is saying she is willing to try. what she isn't saying is that she WANTS it to work.

we have spent the last 4 nights laughing and joking and talking and her telling me how much she loves me... like a happily married couple. until tonight she has been my best friend and lover with hope for the future - from 4-midnight. she wakes up in the morning cold and distant.

immediately following her session, she stopped even the returning the "i love you" we always exchanged.

she swears up and down and sideways that there is no one else - i remain skeptical. she is throwing out the "you don't make enough money" bit. i make a fair living and it is increasing - but she still won't quit working, so i know that isn't the real issue. she says i am a great friend, she doesn't love me anymore, and can't remember when she ever did.

the hard part is that if i start pulling my defenses together to protect myself for what seems a likely divorce, then i will have put up walls that guarantee a divorce is inevitable. i'm not ready to throw in the towel

it has only been 7 years, and i cannot even imagine a life without her in it. i'm circling the drain into despair and hopelessness.

i know if we do divorce in order to get my fair share of the stuff it will be a battle which will forever poison our relationship - which is only important for little lookout's sake.

i've that i can sleep though. Ambien is a magical little pill. take it while standing over your bed- you aren't going anywhere. wake up six hours later well rested. tht has got me back on my workout routine at least. so, i've got that going for me. otherwise i would spend my nights replaying every conversation we've had, every kiss, every shag, everyday filled with pain where we just held each other.
http://cellar.org/attachment.php?att...tid=6761&stc=1

12-17-2005, 02:08 AM

Damn, Lookout, just damn! When I was on the cusp of my divorce from a 20 year marriage, I went into this divorce support group trying to find answers. The counselor said the very fact that I was there meant that my marriage was over. He said that in his experience, once one member of the marriage stated that they wanted out in no uncertain terms, very few couples managed to put things back together.

Not what you want to hear, I know. The accusation that you don't make enough money is a low blow. It sounds to me as if you are making a pretty good living, but what really matters is that your worth as a husband, a lover, a friend, and a father cannot be measured in terms of dollars and cents. Yeah, money is nice, but its only the icing on the cake of the good man you truely are.

And you are a good guy, Lookout. We have violently disagreed on many things on this board, but the one thing I have always admired about you is that you didn't let it get overly personal. I have always felt that at the end of the day, we could shake hands and agree to disagree.

That's another heart crushing blow for her to say she doesn't love you anymore, and, in fact, never loved you. Those words make me think she's got someone else. She's deluding herself, making her actions all better in her mind, and sacrificing you and your son on the alter of some "truer" love. She'll eventually discover how messed up this is, but by then you'll most likely be happily re-married to someone else.

I'm sorry for your pain, Lookout. I wish I had words to make it better. Only time does that and time takes time.

I afraid you're gonna have to wrap your heart in alligator hide in order to fight for yourself and your son.

richlevy · 12-17-2005, 03:26 AM

If you do your part, then you will have done what is necessary to move on knowing you have tried. Just remember that a large percentage of marriages end in divorce. This means there are a lot of people out there who have gone through the same thing, and half of them are women.

If it does come time to move on, you will find an available pool of women to share experiences with. For a lot of reasons, the few second marriages I know of seem more centered, possibly because the partners are more mature when they start them.

I agree with Mari, Lookout, that we've had our differences of opinion but you seem like a decent guy who is willing to at consider other points of view. I hope this works out for you, whether with your wife or a future companion.

lookout123 · 12-17-2005, 01:44 PM

why is it that there is only one thing that i've ever truly valued enough to dedicate all of my energy to succeed at... and that is the one thing that i apparently have failed at?

12-17-2005, 02:00 PM

Lookout, a relationship, especially a marriage takes TWO partners! If one doesn't want to make the effort to make the thing work, it won't work. You can be in there endlessly giving 100%, but if your partner is giving 0%, its impossible. That is not YOUR fault!

The reasons you have told us that your wife gives for wanting to a divorce are simply not valid. You obviously make enough money. If your wife was never in love with you, she should never have married you. I think she is being dishonest on this count. She is simply making up a lie in order to justify her egregious actions.

A woman does not marry a man she is NOT in love with - OK, a fortune hunter or someone who just wants to coast might, but other than that, we women tend to be very picky about such things. We hold out for the man we will fall in love with.

I have seen you post here about trying to make your relationship work. I have seen your concern and love for your son. I have seen your interactions with members of this forum. By everything I am able to tell about you, you are a decent, caring man.

Suppose you opened up a stock broker's office with a partner. Your partner never comes into work. When he does show up, he hasn't bothered to study the market or read any of the financial analysis or even notice if the economy is going up or down. As a result he makes bad decisions. Eventually your company begins to lose money because of this, despite your best efforts. Is the failure of your company YOUR fault? NO!

Don't beat yourself up this way, Lookout!

xoxoxoBruce · 12-18-2005, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

why is it that there is only one thing that i've ever truly valued enough to dedicate all of my energy to succeed at... and that is the one thing that i apparently have failed at?

Sometimes no matter how bright your suit of lights or how hard you try, the bull wins.

There is no shame if you did your best, 'cause there ain't no manual.

Beestie · 12-18-2005, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lookout123

why is it that there is only one thing that i've ever truly valued enough to dedicate all of my energy to succeed at... and that is the one thing that i apparently have failed at?

How she feels is not a function of you. And in terms of what the future holds, how she feels going forward is also not a function of you. I'm not trying to sound clinical but I do think its critical that you grasp the reality that what she does may have nothing to do with what you do. This is the very definition of a failed relationship.

I'm not giving advice but from where I stand, I have a concern that you are letting your guard down and are positioning yourself to be taken advantage of. I'd at least think about going on the offensive - I'm not suggesting that you do only that you consider it.

lookout123 · 12-19-2005, 11:32 PM

how can one be bored in a "humdrum" routine when in the last 12 months, we've been to Rocky Point, Mexico 3 times, Flagstaff 3 times, San Diego, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Illinois, Spain, Italy, and France. we've spent 12 days on cruise ships in the last six months. WTF?

12-16-2005, 01:36 AM	#2
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	First of all, I hope the entire thing was just some temporary bout of insanity on Mrs. L's part. I hope the entire thing has already blown over, but if not: YAY, Beestie! Great words of wisdom in your post! I, too, have been there. My last relationship of 6 years ended with the most amazing dissonance and betrayal. In my case, I had unwittingly become involved with a very slick con artist who seemed so real at the time. One morning I woke up and he had left for someone else along with over 20,000 of my money unaccounted for. It makes a girl's head spin, and I suspect it would any guy's, too, if he were subjected to the same treatment. I consider you my worthy opponent on many other matters, Lookout, but in this matter, if that's what it comes down to, I am 100% on your side! I'm a girl, too, and me the other members of the female persuasion around here can give you lots of insight into how a woman's mind can work and give you plenty of support and deadly ammo, should you need it. I so hope you won't need it! But if you do, count me on your side on this one. Its just wrong! Last edited by marichiko; 12-16-2005 at 01:41 AM.

12-16-2005, 04:48 PM	#5
limey Encroaching on your decrees Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: An island within the south-west coast of Scotland Posts: 7,016	Lookout? How are you doing? __________________ Living it up on the edge ... of civilisation, within the southwest coast of

12-17-2005, 03:26 AM	#8
richlevy King Of Wishful Thinking Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Philadelphia Suburbs Posts: 6,669	If you do your part, then you will have done what is necessary to move on knowing you have tried. Just remember that a large percentage of marriages end in divorce. This means there are a lot of people out there who have gone through the same thing, and half of them are women. If it does come time to move on, you will find an available pool of women to share experiences with. For a lot of reasons, the few second marriages I know of seem more centered, possibly because the partners are more mature when they start them. I agree with Mari, Lookout, that we've had our differences of opinion but you seem like a decent guy who is willing to at consider other points of view. I hope this works out for you, whether with your wife or a future companion. __________________ Exercise your rights and remember your obligations - VOTE! I have always believed that hope is that stubborn thing inside us that insists, despite all the evidence to the contrary, that something better awaits us so long as we have the courage to keep reaching, to keep working, to keep fighting. -- Barack Hussein Obama

12-16-2005, 11:51 AM	#3
Hemlock May Ter Dee Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 26	The only question I have - and perhaps it shows my ignorance of human behavior - is why do people engage in such destructive behaviors? We as humans can think, and although sometimes we do not, we have the power to overcome our more "primitive" instincts. No idea here. I guess people are just jerks, and unwilling to change.

12-17-2005, 12:03 AM	#6
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	not doing well at all. she went to the first counseling session on her own and came back with good words. she promised that she will be 100% committed to seeing if this will work. the problem is that she has already decided that it can't work, so she has only committed to seeing it to that end. i will see the guy on tuesday for my session, so we'll see how it goes. we just had a heartbreaking 90 minute conversation about the issue and it is absolutely apparent that her mind is made up even if she is saying she is willing to try. what she isn't saying is that she WANTS it to work. we have spent the last 4 nights laughing and joking and talking and her telling me how much she loves me... like a happily married couple. until tonight she has been my best friend and lover with hope for the future - from 4-midnight. she wakes up in the morning cold and distant. immediately following her session, she stopped even the returning the "i love you" we always exchanged. she swears up and down and sideways that there is no one else - i remain skeptical. she is throwing out the "you don't make enough money" bit. i make a fair living and it is increasing - but she still won't quit working, so i know that isn't the real issue. she says i am a great friend, she doesn't love me anymore, and can't remember when she ever did. the hard part is that if i start pulling my defenses together to protect myself for what seems a likely divorce, then i will have put up walls that guarantee a divorce is inevitable. i'm not ready to throw in the towel it has only been 7 years, and i cannot even imagine a life without her in it. i'm circling the drain into despair and hopelessness. i know if we do divorce in order to get my fair share of the stuff it will be a battle which will forever poison our relationship - which is only important for little lookout's sake. i've that i can sleep though. Ambien is a magical little pill. take it while standing over your bed- you aren't going anywhere. wake up six hours later well rested. tht has got me back on my workout routine at least. so, i've got that going for me. otherwise i would spend my nights replaying every conversation we've had, every kiss, every shag, everyday filled with pain where we just held each other. http://cellar.org/attachment.php?att...tid=6761&stc=1

12-17-2005, 02:08 AM	#7
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	Damn, Lookout, just damn! When I was on the cusp of my divorce from a 20 year marriage, I went into this divorce support group trying to find answers. The counselor said the very fact that I was there meant that my marriage was over. He said that in his experience, once one member of the marriage stated that they wanted out in no uncertain terms, very few couples managed to put things back together. Not what you want to hear, I know. The accusation that you don't make enough money is a low blow. It sounds to me as if you are making a pretty good living, but what really matters is that your worth as a husband, a lover, a friend, and a father cannot be measured in terms of dollars and cents. Yeah, money is nice, but its only the icing on the cake of the good man you truely are. And you are a good guy, Lookout. We have violently disagreed on many things on this board, but the one thing I have always admired about you is that you didn't let it get overly personal. I have always felt that at the end of the day, we could shake hands and agree to disagree. That's another heart crushing blow for her to say she doesn't love you anymore, and, in fact, never loved you. Those words make me think she's got someone else. She's deluding herself, making her actions all better in her mind, and sacrificing you and your son on the alter of some "truer" love. She'll eventually discover how messed up this is, but by then you'll most likely be happily re-married to someone else. I'm sorry for your pain, Lookout. I wish I had words to make it better. Only time does that and time takes time. I afraid you're gonna have to wrap your heart in alligator hide in order to fight for yourself and your son.

12-17-2005, 01:44 PM	#9
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	why is it that there is only one thing that i've ever truly valued enough to dedicate all of my energy to succeed at... and that is the one thing that i apparently have failed at?

12-17-2005, 02:00 PM	#10
marichiko Guest Posts: n/a	Lookout, a relationship, especially a marriage takes TWO partners! If one doesn't want to make the effort to make the thing work, it won't work. You can be in there endlessly giving 100%, but if your partner is giving 0%, its impossible. That is not YOUR fault! The reasons you have told us that your wife gives for wanting to a divorce are simply not valid. You obviously make enough money. If your wife was never in love with you, she should never have married you. I think she is being dishonest on this count. She is simply making up a lie in order to justify her egregious actions. A woman does not marry a man she is NOT in love with - OK, a fortune hunter or someone who just wants to coast might, but other than that, we women tend to be very picky about such things. We hold out for the man we will fall in love with. I have seen you post here about trying to make your relationship work. I have seen your concern and love for your son. I have seen your interactions with members of this forum. By everything I am able to tell about you, you are a decent, caring man. Suppose you opened up a stock broker's office with a partner. Your partner never comes into work. When he does show up, he hasn't bothered to study the market or read any of the financial analysis or even notice if the economy is going up or down. As a result he makes bad decisions. Eventually your company begins to lose money because of this, despite your best efforts. Is the failure of your company YOUR fault? NO! Don't beat yourself up this way, Lookout!

12-19-2005, 11:32 PM	#13
lookout123 changed his status to single Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Right behind you. No, the other side. Posts: 10,308	how can one be bored in a "humdrum" routine when in the last 12 months, we've been to Rocky Point, Mexico 3 times, Flagstaff 3 times, San Diego, Las Vegas, New Orleans, Illinois, Spain, Italy, and France. we've spent 12 days on cruise ships in the last six months. WTF?

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