The New "Tolerance"

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Buddug

Strictly speaking you cannot call yourself a Christian just because you follow the teachings of Christ . To be a Christian you have to accept the idea of the Virgin Birth , and you have to accept the idea that Jesus died and rose again.

Really? Care to name off all the other parts of the bible that you have to take literally in order to call yourself a Christian? Where's that blurry line?

[Stormieweather]

There are also many distinct definitions of the term "Christian" (pronounced 'kristee`ân):

Most liberal Christian denominations, secularists, public opinion pollsters, and this web site [see link below] define "Christian" very broadly as any person or group who sincerely believes themselves to be Christian.

Thus, Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestants, Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox believers, Presbyterians, Methodists, Episcopalians, United Church members, Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, Christian Scientists, etc. are all considered Christian. They total about 75% of the North American adult population.

However, many Fundamentalist and other Evangelical Protestants define "Christian" more narrowly to include only those persons with beliefs like their own. Or they might accept as a "Christian" anyone who has been "born again" regardless of their denomination. They might estimate that about 35% of the North American adult population are real Christians.

Other denominations regard their own members to be the only Christians in the world. Some are quite small, numbering only a few thousand followers.

Different definitions on such a fundamental topic makes dialog and debate among Christian groups very difficult. It also makes estimating the number of Christians in the U.S. quite impossible. By some definitions, 75% of Americans are Christians; by other definitions, it is a small fraction of 1%.

From http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_defn.htm

[xoxoxoBruce]

1%?
The only real Christians are outlaw bikers?

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Care to name off all the other parts of the bible that you have to take literally in order to call yourself a Christian? Where's that blurry line?

Kitsune, being mean ill becomes you. Rein back, if you please.

And for a Readers' Digest listing of the beliefs that make a Christian, have a read of the Nicene Creed, the Apostles' Creed, and the Creed of St. Athanasius. The first two are pretty easy to follow, but expect Athanasius to be mystical and esoteric. These set forth the, or a, baseline.

There are faiths I would call Christian that do not profess a Creed as an article of faith or a piece of liturgy, but it seems to me they do not disdain the Creed, either -- the Unitarian Universalists being a case in point.

[Elspode]

I like the UU's. They're sort of the Pot Luck of religions. Bring watcha' got, and we'll all share some of it. Works for me.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Kitsune, being mean ill becomes you. Rein back, if you please.

I'm simply trying to point out that even Christians can't come to an agreement on what it means to "be christian". Some require passages in the bible to be taken literally and followed to the letter, others... not so. I'll accept that it is mostly due to the church(es) rather than the nature of the religion, itself.

"I give you these fifteen-- *CRASH* ...ten, ten commandments!"

[xoxoxoBruce]

How do you think the muslims feel these days. They're being lumped like Christians.

[Tonchi]

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

And for a Readers' Digest listing of the beliefs that make a Christian, have a read of the Nicene Creed, the Apostles' Creed, and the Creed of St. Athanasius. The first two are pretty easy to follow, but expect Athanasius to be mystical and esoteric. These set forth the, or a, baseline.

Nope, that does not "make a Christian". That makes a 5th Century Roman Catholic.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Tonchi

Nope, that does not "make a Christian". That makes a 5th Century Roman Catholic.

That would come as a complete surprise to about two million 21st-century US Episcopalians, Tonch. Read over all three Creeds and see how much of each you agree with, either as a nondenominational moral being or as a professed Christian, whichever or whatever you may be.

Note, too, that I never said the Creeds were the be-all and end-all of the Christian faiths. I said they were a base-line. They aren't Scripture; that, shall we say, has a very considerable influence in all this. They are a convenient paraphrasing of the barest essentials -- and as conveniences, mighty handy to Christians.