Valid Point

rob4963 · 06-30-2006, 07:16 PM

We Are All Forrest Gumps
Karen Kwiatkowski | June 30 2006

Americans are feeling uncomfortable. There is strangeness in the air and we don’t fully understand what is happening. We see things that make no sense, and we wonder, "Am I part of this, or not?" Whether one answers "Yes" or "No," the implications are distinctly terrifying.

A good citizen, we are told, supports the war in Iraq. That this occupation is not a "war," that it is based on Washington, D.C.–generated lies, that it is a permanent part of a still secret and regional strategic agenda, and that it effectively creates terrorists instead of killing them is irrelevant. To be a good citizen, you must support the war in Iraq.

A good citizen does not criticize his President, a.k.a. his or her "commander in chief." It is easy to be confused. We are told that 300 million citizens and 30 million more living in the United States are the same as the 1.4 million on military active duty, who acknowledge the President as a commander in chief during, and only during, times of war. We are told that a selective permanent military occupation of an oil rich state equates to just war. We are told that the First Amendment to the Constitution really doesn’t mean what it says in black and white, much like the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Yet, only moments earlier we were told that the freedom from government interference outlined in the Bill of Rights is sacrosanct, and worth an eternal and global fight to the death.

A good citizen is not a criminal – yet we live in a modern American where one is a criminal if one does not wear a state-mandated seatbelt, if one enters a public building without the appropriate citizen’s identification, if one smokes a cigarette on the wrong sidewalk, if one does not remove clothing as demanded by the Department of Homeland security prior to a commercial plane ride for which one has not only privately purchased, but paid a smorgasbord of additional fees to cover the costs imposed by these same Homeland Security regulations. One must disclose all of one’s activities to the state, in advance if possible. The state must never be placed at risk by the checks we write, the things we buy, the letters we send, the phone calls we make, places we go, the friends we hold dear, the words we say, the ideas we consider.

My local paper, the Shenandoah Valley Herald, ran a front-page article yesterday about a truck driver who was tasered to death less than ten miles from my house on June 20th because he would not submit satisfactorily to the local police queries. He was pepper sprayed, then tasered multiple times until he expired. I don’t know what crimes he committed, but I suspect they will be recorded as many and most serious.

Jon Stewart captured the insanity of the American state in this four-minute clip, where Stewart conducts a Forrest Gump style assessment of the latest FBI and Department of Justice anti-terrorist operation against the notorious Miami Seven. It is absolutely hilarious, as if made for comedy. It stars Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and his two best men, all playing themselves.

We need to take Forrest Gump in America to a whole new level. Instead of being entertained by Gumpian common sense and wide-eyed amazement, as we are with The Daily Show, every good American ought to aspire to achieve a certain level of personal Gumpism.

Public critics of government excess – in any era – tend to be the educated, the economically and historically sophisticated, the articulate, the intellectually curious, and the morally or religiously devout.

It is always good to criticize governments, starting most vociferously with your own. But Forrest Gump was not educated, articulate, or religiously devout.

Public supporters of government excess, top-down mandates for law and order, moral majorities and central-planning state-allocators of global resources, are not Gumpian either. These flocks are Gump’s immediate enemies. When Forrest is running, it is from this angry, obsessed, jealous prole-mass, whether they are attempting to beat him into submission, punish him for crimes uncommitted, or keep him caged by low expectations.

Forrest Gumps are the living, breathing nemeses of fascism, gang mentalities, and chic utilitarianism. Gumps among us may not speak the whole truth, and they may understand little of what intellectuals and know-it-alls say about "how the world works." But the Forrests of the world trust their gut, and they prefer to believe their real mothers, not their would-be nannies. Forrest Gumps know that stupid is as stupid does.

Gumps believe in hard evidence, and they observe this evidence wherever it rests, without fear. Gumps are not dismayed when those doing stupid things appear powerful, respected and are well-dressed. They are blissfully ignorant of the idea that the wealthy and politically connected have power over the smallest detail of a man’s life. Forrest Gumps, childlike and innocent, will openly observe that the emperor is stark naked, and by extension, powerless over his betters.

With today’s state-loving blowhards busy blowing with all their might, we might consider a third way. The proper response may not be, as in the Three Little Pigs, to build a stronger house. It may be simply be to walk out the back door, change the dynamic, shift the power perspective in our own worldview. It is asymmetric warfare of the finest kind.

Gump’s fictional story is nothing more than a single life lived honestly, damn the consequences. This way of life is remarkably self-centered – yet as the Winston Groom novel shows, this type of life tends to be more influential than the lives of flocks and flocks of those who look to others to know what to think, what to do, and how to behave.

It is good to enjoy Gumpism for its inspirational and entertainment value, but we should go further. We ought to cultivate Gumpian perspectives of American politics, and adopt a Gump-inspired lifestyle in the heart of an increasingly vicious and amoral state.

xoxoxoBruce · 06-30-2006, 08:36 PM

I can't help believing that in our world, the post 9-11 world, Forest Gump would have been jailed or institutionalized rather quickly.

wolf · 07-01-2006, 02:02 AM

rob4963 ... your point in posting other people's copyrighted work in it's entirety with no commentary of your own is??

Beestie · 07-01-2006, 03:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wolf

rob4963 ... your point in posting other people's copyrighted work in it's entirety with no commentary of your own is??

that he'll leave his thinking to others. I suppose that's where we come in.

rob4963 · 07-01-2006, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beestie

that he'll leave his thinking to others. I suppose that's where we come in.

I agree with Ms. Kwiatkowski. Her article has captured my attention as well as my sentiments on the on going cursory actions taken by the American public that had been whitewashed by the government surrounding the current events post 9/11.. i.e. the war, terrorist, illegal aliens and terrorism as well as the astounding way our liberties have been interrupted by the abstrusely aforementioned absurdity surrounding politics and the views of most in todays society.

Griff · 07-02-2006, 02:19 PM

She is almost always right. The preferred Cellar method of starting a discussion about it would be a short quote, an explanation of your thoughts, and a link to the article. Usually folks won't read a long article by someone the disagree with unless somebody uses it to back-up their own ideas. Welcome to the Cellar.

rob4963 · 07-02-2006, 04:45 PM

I was just testing the water so to speak.. posting an article like this or even starting a topic as such has brought nothing but accusations of being an UN-grateful, murderous, UN-patriotic American traitor in the past. Thanks for the tip and the welcome Griff.

Griff · 07-02-2006, 04:47 PM

I usually refer to her as Madam President, sounds more patriotic that way.

Undertoad · 07-02-2006, 06:57 PM

This essay doesn't say very much, and what it does say, it says poorly. The Gump analogy strikes me as utterly, utterly ridiculous.

Quote:

My local paper, the Shenandoah Valley Herald, ran a front-page article yesterday about a truck driver who was tasered to death less than ten miles from my house on June 20th because he would not submit satisfactorily to the local police queries. He was pepper sprayed, then tasered multiple times until he expired. I don’t know what crimes he committed, but I suspect they will be recorded as many and most serious.

I was particularly struck by how this paragraph has nothing to do with the whole thing. I went and looked up the incident.

http://www.dailynews-record.com/svh_...D=5051&CHID=43

A pickup truck rolls down an embankment and into a person's back yard at 10:30 at night. The home owner goes and checks on the driver, who is not hurt, but is "incoherent". He calls the cops. When the cop arrives, the driver attacks the cop, and it takes the cop plus three non-cops to hold the driver down even after pepper spraying. Other cops arrive and try to control the guy with tasers. They hit him with the most powerful stuff they have, but he still resists. Finally he just suffers some sort of malady and slumps over and passes out. Emergency personnel fail to revive him and the guy dies at the hospital. Thirty people witnessed the tasering.

Karen Kwiatkowski read that same story and determined it was evidence of a libertarian crisis in her area.

She's clearly not very bright, is she?

skysidhe · 07-02-2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob4963

I was just testing the water so to speak.. posting an article like this or even starting a topic as such has brought nothing but accusations of being an UN-grateful, murderous, UN-patriotic American traitor in the past. Thanks for the tip and the welcome Griff.

As for testing the waters. I don't like the Gump analogy but that is nothing personal against you.

I have been waiting for a good discussion on just about anything. If you could raise the bar and find some articles with sharp opinions then add your response to it, I am sure these really smart people here love a good discussion with you.

oh and by the way. I am not one of the smart people. Just a lazy wannabe intellectual who likes to hang about.

xoxoxoBruce · 07-02-2006, 08:59 PM

Forrest Gump struck me as a disconnected boy scout that ricocheted through history like a pinball. Maybe I didn't understand the movie?

skysidhe · 07-02-2006, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Forrest Gump struck me as a disconnected boy scout that ricocheted through history like a pinball. Maybe I didn't understand the movie?

no you understood it...she didn't

I had to look up the movie again because it has been so long. The analogy the movie took was, 'Life is Like A Box of Chocolates. You never know what your going to get' Anyone that knows the movie would think this person Karen would support her opinions by drawing a reference to that?

I'm not able to tell miss Karen 'life is not like a box of chocolates' because she didn't even bother to use that line.

She did say quote "instead of being entertained by Gumpian common sense and wide-eyed amazement, as we are with The Daily Show, every good American ought to aspire to achieve a certain level of personal Gumpism."

I can't tell if she is comparing us to gump or telling us to be more gump or oddly the three little pigs too.

It's confusing.

I think it's a bit insulting to the average american who would at least gave a chuckle to a Homer analogy.

I like my beer cold ... my TV loud ... and my homosexuals flaming. ( homer )

or

Movies are the only escape from the drudgery of work and family ... No offense. ( homer )

tw · 07-02-2006, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysidhe

She did say quote "instead of being entertained by Gumpian common sense and wide-eyed amazement, as we are with The Daily Show, every good American ought to aspire to achieve a certain level of personal Gumpism."

I, too, was waiting for details on what that sentence meant. For example, I have no idea what 'wide-eyed amazement of the Daily Show' means. Where and what is the amazement? And how passive TV viewing have any relationship to what we aspire or what we would achieve?

Sentences like that also made me hate poetry. Apparently there is some meaning there. But it requires me to speculate which no honest person should do. I don't like posts that require me to speculate, assume, or identify implications - which is why short posts are also so difficult to read. What exactly does that sentence mean and what is 'personal Gumpism'.

Griff · 07-03-2006, 05:00 AM

This was probably the most disconnected thing I've read by Lieutenant Colonel Kwiatkowski. She is much better writing about military matters. The piece probably makes more sense with all the embeded links, but I'm not gonna wade through it.

Flint · 07-03-2006, 10:32 AM

I only made it half-way through the article, but I never did catch the Forrest Gump reference. In what way exactly are we all like Forrest Gump, and is that a good thing or a bad thing?

For example: was the tasered truck driver a Forrest Gump, or were the cops Forrest Gumps, or does reading about it make us a Forrest Gump, or is it something about our reaction to reading about it that makes us a Forrest Gump?

Oh, wait, I get it. I don't understand the article because I'm stupid.

You know it's good writing when you can't understand it (thus proving that the author is much smarter than you.)

06-30-2006, 07:16 PM	#1
rob4963 Non-Newbie Sort Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 6	Valid Point We Are All Forrest Gumps Karen Kwiatkowski \| June 30 2006 Americans are feeling uncomfortable. There is strangeness in the air and we don’t fully understand what is happening. We see things that make no sense, and we wonder, "Am I part of this, or not?" Whether one answers "Yes" or "No," the implications are distinctly terrifying. A good citizen, we are told, supports the war in Iraq. That this occupation is not a "war," that it is based on Washington, D.C.–generated lies, that it is a permanent part of a still secret and regional strategic agenda, and that it effectively creates terrorists instead of killing them is irrelevant. To be a good citizen, you must support the war in Iraq. A good citizen does not criticize his President, a.k.a. his or her "commander in chief." It is easy to be confused. We are told that 300 million citizens and 30 million more living in the United States are the same as the 1.4 million on military active duty, who acknowledge the President as a commander in chief during, and only during, times of war. We are told that a selective permanent military occupation of an oil rich state equates to just war. We are told that the First Amendment to the Constitution really doesn’t mean what it says in black and white, much like the rest of the Bill of Rights. Yet, only moments earlier we were told that the freedom from government interference outlined in the Bill of Rights is sacrosanct, and worth an eternal and global fight to the death. A good citizen is not a criminal – yet we live in a modern American where one is a criminal if one does not wear a state-mandated seatbelt, if one enters a public building without the appropriate citizen’s identification, if one smokes a cigarette on the wrong sidewalk, if one does not remove clothing as demanded by the Department of Homeland security prior to a commercial plane ride for which one has not only privately purchased, but paid a smorgasbord of additional fees to cover the costs imposed by these same Homeland Security regulations. One must disclose all of one’s activities to the state, in advance if possible. The state must never be placed at risk by the checks we write, the things we buy, the letters we send, the phone calls we make, places we go, the friends we hold dear, the words we say, the ideas we consider. My local paper, the Shenandoah Valley Herald, ran a front-page article yesterday about a truck driver who was tasered to death less than ten miles from my house on June 20th because he would not submit satisfactorily to the local police queries. He was pepper sprayed, then tasered multiple times until he expired. I don’t know what crimes he committed, but I suspect they will be recorded as many and most serious. Jon Stewart captured the insanity of the American state in this four-minute clip, where Stewart conducts a Forrest Gump style assessment of the latest FBI and Department of Justice anti-terrorist operation against the notorious Miami Seven. It is absolutely hilarious, as if made for comedy. It stars Attorney General Alberto Gonzales, and his two best men, all playing themselves. We need to take Forrest Gump in America to a whole new level. Instead of being entertained by Gumpian common sense and wide-eyed amazement, as we are with The Daily Show, every good American ought to aspire to achieve a certain level of personal Gumpism. Public critics of government excess – in any era – tend to be the educated, the economically and historically sophisticated, the articulate, the intellectually curious, and the morally or religiously devout. It is always good to criticize governments, starting most vociferously with your own. But Forrest Gump was not educated, articulate, or religiously devout. Public supporters of government excess, top-down mandates for law and order, moral majorities and central-planning state-allocators of global resources, are not Gumpian either. These flocks are Gump’s immediate enemies. When Forrest is running, it is from this angry, obsessed, jealous prole-mass, whether they are attempting to beat him into submission, punish him for crimes uncommitted, or keep him caged by low expectations. Forrest Gumps are the living, breathing nemeses of fascism, gang mentalities, and chic utilitarianism. Gumps among us may not speak the whole truth, and they may understand little of what intellectuals and know-it-alls say about "how the world works." But the Forrests of the world trust their gut, and they prefer to believe their real mothers, not their would-be nannies. Forrest Gumps know that stupid is as stupid does. Gumps believe in hard evidence, and they observe this evidence wherever it rests, without fear. Gumps are not dismayed when those doing stupid things appear powerful, respected and are well-dressed. They are blissfully ignorant of the idea that the wealthy and politically connected have power over the smallest detail of a man’s life. Forrest Gumps, childlike and innocent, will openly observe that the emperor is stark naked, and by extension, powerless over his betters. With today’s state-loving blowhards busy blowing with all their might, we might consider a third way. The proper response may not be, as in the Three Little Pigs, to build a stronger house. It may be simply be to walk out the back door, change the dynamic, shift the power perspective in our own worldview. It is asymmetric warfare of the finest kind. Gump’s fictional story is nothing more than a single life lived honestly, damn the consequences. This way of life is remarkably self-centered – yet as the Winston Groom novel shows, this type of life tends to be more influential than the lives of flocks and flocks of those who look to others to know what to think, what to do, and how to behave. It is good to enjoy Gumpism for its inspirational and entertainment value, but we should go further. We ought to cultivate Gumpian perspectives of American politics, and adopt a Gump-inspired lifestyle in the heart of an increasingly vicious and amoral state.

06-30-2006, 08:36 PM	#2
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I can't help believing that in our world, the post 9-11 world, Forest Gump would have been jailed or institutionalized rather quickly. __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-01-2006, 02:02 AM	#3
wolf lobber of scimitars Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Phila Burbs Posts: 20,774	rob4963 ... your point in posting other people's copyrighted work in it's entirety with no commentary of your own is?? __________________ wolf eht htiw og "Conspiracies are the norm, not the exception." --G. Edward Griffin The Creature from Jekyll Island High Priestess of the Church of the Whale Penis

07-02-2006, 02:19 PM	#6
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	She is almost always right. The preferred Cellar method of starting a discussion about it would be a short quote, an explanation of your thoughts, and a link to the article. Usually folks won't read a long article by someone the disagree with unless somebody uses it to back-up their own ideas. Welcome to the Cellar. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-02-2006, 04:45 PM	#7
rob4963 Non-Newbie Sort Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 6	I was just testing the water so to speak.. posting an article like this or even starting a topic as such has brought nothing but accusations of being an UN-grateful, murderous, UN-patriotic American traitor in the past. Thanks for the tip and the welcome Griff. __________________ "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge"Hosea 4:6

07-02-2006, 04:47 PM	#8
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	I usually refer to her as Madam President, sounds more patriotic that way. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-02-2006, 08:59 PM	#11
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	Forrest Gump struck me as a disconnected boy scout that ricocheted through history like a pinball. Maybe I didn't understand the movie? __________________ The descent of man ~ Nixon, Friedman, Reagan, Trump.

07-03-2006, 05:00 AM	#14
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	This was probably the most disconnected thing I've read by Lieutenant Colonel Kwiatkowski. She is much better writing about military matters. The piece probably makes more sense with all the embeded links, but I'm not gonna wade through it. __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

07-03-2006, 10:32 AM	#15
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I only made it half-way through the article, but I never did catch the Forrest Gump reference. In what way exactly are we all like Forrest Gump, and is that a good thing or a bad thing? For example: was the tasered truck driver a Forrest Gump, or were the cops Forrest Gumps, or does reading about it make us a Forrest Gump, or is it something about our reaction to reading about it that makes us a Forrest Gump? Oh, wait, I get it. I don't understand the article because I'm stupid. You know it's good writing when you can't understand it (thus proving that the author is much smarter than you.) __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

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