Fear of Loss - Page 2

BlueSky_TheMan · 07-31-2006, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

There was a time in my life that I would negatively ruminate. That is not what I am describing here. I am describing the frequent occurance of a particular theme in my thoughts, which is an unpleasant one, but also realistic. And, I have my own perfectly effective methods for dealing with this situation. I guess my only queston is: does anyone have any suggestions as to the origin of this theme? I have my own theories, but I am curious.

I would offer the following as a possible origin. I would also like to say that my suggestion is only toward the "nature" of the origin since only you can truly know the origin.

You believe "all that you are" will cease to exist when physical death takes place. You also believe the best way to avoid death is by being constantly vigilant for its onset.

I stress that this is only a suggestion that beliefs are the origin, not these specific beliefs.

Flint · 07-31-2006, 02:09 PM

@BlueSky: Thank you, that is an interesting theory. Two things: #1 I am fearful for the death of others, not myself, and #2 that is not what I believe about physical death. Which leads in other theoretical directions: are those my real beliefs or just the ones I tell myslef on the surface? Also, when did I develop those beliefs? That one hits a nerve. This is my personal theory: that I developed these beliefs in response to an event in my life, and there is a residual, a loose end that nags me. A chink in my armor, begging to be dealt with.

BigV · 07-31-2006, 03:15 PM

The Litany against fear is a fictional incantation spoken by characters in Frank Herbert's Dune and sequels in order to focus their minds in times of peril. The litany is as follows:

"I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.
I will face my fear.
I will permit it to pass over me and through me.
And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path.
Where the fear has gone there will be nothing.
Only I will remain."

This has worked for years for me. It still does. YMMV.

BlueSky_TheMan · 07-31-2006, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

#1 I am fearful for the death of others, not myself, and #2 that is not what I believe about physical death.

I would leave the refinement of this suggested belief to you and your methodology for finding such personal answers. J

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

are those my real beliefs or just the ones I tell myslef on the surface?

I think an insightful answer to that requires a definition of why you believe there are levels to beliefs and what those levels truly are. To define mine VERY generally, beliefs are of two kinds:
1 (Ego Belief) This belief is formed solely of past experiences and allows only interpretations that agree with its evaluation of those experiences.
2 (Higher Knowledge) This belief exists in “all that is”/God/universal consciousness/the true reality” (pick or add the one that pertains to you) and is realized rather than “added to”

With those definitions: I regard any belief that instills fear, hatred, guilt, jealousy etc to be classified as type 1. Any belief that instills true love, joy, happiness, appreciation etc to be classified as type 2.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flint

Also, when did I develop those beliefs? That one hits a nerve.

I would ask yourself the true nature of why this part of your perception “hits a nerve”

Flint · 07-31-2006, 04:14 PM

Thank you for playing along. I'm just thinking out loud.

BlueSky_TheMan · 07-31-2006, 09:10 PM

Flint,

You are very welcome.

I like threads such as this one that welcome considerate verbal parley. I view many discussions at the cellar and try to respond to those that contain individuals that embrace a variety of comments. I feel we can all learn from each other !

Aliantha · 08-01-2006, 05:55 AM

I think everyone fears different things. It's only whether they consider these fears rational or irrational that distinguishes these thoughts. I've yet to meet anyone who has nothing to fear and if I ever did meet someone like that I'd have to accuse them of bullshitting me.

Being aware of your fears doesn't mean you're psychologically deficient. It just means you're aware of how you view life and perhaps gives you an insight into your motivations.

I say congratulations on knowing yourself so well.

Flint · 08-02-2006, 09:54 AM

Thank you. I don't think a fear of death is irrational, it's just...inconvenient. (Note: this is fear of death of others, I have no fear of death for myself - I would consider that irrational.)

skysidhe · 08-02-2006, 01:33 PM

I think the causes of death should be more of a concern than the actual happening?

Don't watch the 'Final Destination; movies then.

:p

When I was really physically ill I thought I could precieve death close by. I was having chest pains for months. Blood wasn't being pumped to my brain and my immune system was going bonkers. ( well I didn't know that at the time) I just couldn't imagine feeling like this for years. I was trying to sleep one night and I thought I could feel how it must be to be near death and it wasn't an unpleasant experience. So I guess I am saying if you are fearful people are going to die don't be. They are going to a better place. A place without pain. Without physicall illness or suffering. A place of rest. While obligations keep me tied to this earth I know when my time is up I will go peacefully. The experience taught me to take care of me and not to get wrapped up in the negative emotions of others of which I am hyper sensitive too. One reason I like the cellar is I think people are in control of their emotions. Or so I thought.

Aliantha · 08-02-2006, 08:54 PM

I've felt like that during the course of a migrain. After the migrain was gone, I'd always think about how amazing it is that our will to live can be so easily defeated by physical pain.

These thoughts also allow me to lend my support to proponents of euthenasia (sp?).

yesman065 · 08-07-2006, 08:34 AM

Fearing and knowing ones fears are two very different things. Also, accepting the fears that we all have allows one to overcome the debilitating affects they can cause. What really scares me is allowing that which I fear to control me or make me do,or not do, things which I would otherwise do,or not do. I'm afraid that didn't come out right - anybody understand what I meant??

Flint · 08-07-2006, 03:34 PM

@yesman065: I think you said you don't want to be controlled by your fears, by allowing them to change the course of your decision-making process. Sometimes you have to stop and review your internal script, determine whether you are re-living an old story, re-making old decisions, or basing current decisions on old information.

yesman065 · 08-08-2006, 12:50 PM

That was much better written, Flint. Thanks. Or as I tell my kids - What I meant

08-14-2006, 02:28 PM

Sounds like the precursor to self-sabotage to me... the next step is doing something to screw-up the relationship because you have convinced yourself that it is happening or going to happen.
I used to do this a lot... part of having very low self esteem.

Flint · 08-14-2006, 04:19 PM

I guess I should have called this thread "Fear of Death" and put it in the Philosophy Forum.

07-31-2006, 02:09 PM	#17
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	@BlueSky: Thank you, that is an interesting theory. Two things: #1 I am fearful for the death of others, not myself, and #2 that is not what I believe about physical death. Which leads in other theoretical directions: are those my real beliefs or just the ones I tell myslef on the surface? Also, when did I develop those beliefs? That one hits a nerve. This is my personal theory: that I developed these beliefs in response to an event in my life, and there is a residual, a loose end that nags me. A chink in my armor, begging to be dealt with. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

07-31-2006, 03:15 PM	#18
BigV Goon Squad Leader Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Seattle Posts: 27,063	The Litany against fear is a fictional incantation spoken by characters in Frank Herbert's Dune and sequels in order to focus their minds in times of peril. The litany is as follows: "I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain." This has worked for years for me. It still does. YMMV. __________________ Be Just and Fear Not.

07-31-2006, 04:14 PM	#20
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Thank you for playing along. I'm just thinking out loud. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

07-31-2006, 09:10 PM	#21
BlueSky_TheMan This moment is a gift, thats why they call it the present. Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 56	Flint, You are very welcome. I like threads such as this one that welcome considerate verbal parley. I view many discussions at the cellar and try to respond to those that contain individuals that embrace a variety of comments. I feel we can all learn from each other ! __________________ -- I’m a Father, Husband, Son, Computer Dude, Sometimes Artist, Thirty Something, American, Jeep Driver, and devotee to truth, on a life path to remove the labels placed on my existence. --

08-01-2006, 05:55 AM	#22
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I think everyone fears different things. It's only whether they consider these fears rational or irrational that distinguishes these thoughts. I've yet to meet anyone who has nothing to fear and if I ever did meet someone like that I'd have to accuse them of bullshitting me. Being aware of your fears doesn't mean you're psychologically deficient. It just means you're aware of how you view life and perhaps gives you an insight into your motivations. I say congratulations on knowing yourself so well. __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

08-02-2006, 09:54 AM	#23
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	Thank you. I don't think a fear of death is irrational, it's just...inconvenient. (Note: this is fear of death of others, I have no fear of death for myself - I would consider that irrational.) __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-02-2006, 01:33 PM	#24
skysidhe ~~Life is either a daring adventure or nothing.~~ Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 6,828	I think the causes of death should be more of a concern than the actual happening? Don't watch the 'Final Destination; movies then.:p When I was really physically ill I thought I could precieve death close by. I was having chest pains for months. Blood wasn't being pumped to my brain and my immune system was going bonkers. ( well I didn't know that at the time) I just couldn't imagine feeling like this for years. I was trying to sleep one night and I thought I could feel how it must be to be near death and it wasn't an unpleasant experience. So I guess I am saying if you are fearful people are going to die don't be. They are going to a better place. A place without pain. Without physicall illness or suffering. A place of rest. While obligations keep me tied to this earth I know when my time is up I will go peacefully. The experience taught me to take care of me and not to get wrapped up in the negative emotions of others of which I am hyper sensitive too. One reason I like the cellar is I think people are in control of their emotions. Or so I thought. Last edited by skysidhe; 08-02-2006 at 06:45 PM.

08-02-2006, 08:54 PM	#25
Aliantha trying hard to be a better person Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 16,493	I've felt like that during the course of a migrain. After the migrain was gone, I'd always think about how amazing it is that our will to live can be so easily defeated by physical pain. These thoughts also allow me to lend my support to proponents of euthenasia (sp?). __________________ Kind words are the music of the world. F. W. Faber

08-07-2006, 08:34 AM	#26
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	Fearing and knowing ones fears are two very different things. Also, accepting the fears that we all have allows one to overcome the debilitating affects they can cause. What really scares me is allowing that which I fear to control me or make me do,or not do, things which I would otherwise do,or not do. I'm afraid that didn't come out right - anybody understand what I meant??

08-07-2006, 03:34 PM	#27
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	@yesman065: I think you said you don't want to be controlled by your fears, by allowing them to change the course of your decision-making process. Sometimes you have to stop and review your internal script, determine whether you are re-living an old story, re-making old decisions, or basing current decisions on old information. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

08-08-2006, 12:50 PM	#28
yesman065 Banned - Self Imposed Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,847	That was much better written, Flint. Thanks. Or as I tell my kids - What I meant

08-14-2006, 02:28 PM	#29
rkzenrage Guest Posts: n/a	Sounds like the precursor to self-sabotage to me... the next step is doing something to screw-up the relationship because you have convinced yourself that it is happening or going to happen. I used to do this a lot... part of having very low self esteem.

08-14-2006, 04:19 PM	#30
Flint Snowflake Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Dystopia Posts: 13,136	I guess I should have called this thread "Fear of Death" and put it in the Philosophy Forum. __________________ **************** There's a level of facility that everyone needs to accomplish, and from there it's a matter of deciding for yourself how important ultra-facility is to your expression. ... I found, like Joseph Campbell said, if you just follow whatever gives you a little joy or excitement or awe, then you're on the right track. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Terry Bozzio**

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