ESR's Anti-Idiotarian Manifesto

[hermit22]

Originally posted by Undertoad
Bin Laden wasn't nationalist only because he couldn't take over a government to become nationalist about.

Most of the Arab world is quite fascist.

This is what I'm talking about. The social inequities of the region, and the tyrannical governments that reinforce them, are what give bin Laden his base. I'd agree that it would quickly turn into nationalism and fascism if given the opportunity. But since he is not really in a position of real power, but just standing on a soapbox, he can't impose his own brand of it.

Islam apparently makes running government by Islamic law part of the religion.

In Saudi Arabia, the nation with the two holiest of Islamic sites, government appointed mullahs call for the total annihilation of all Jews and western "crusaders". The majority believe that bombers are martyrs. Their opinion can't really be called extremist; there, it's mainstream.

As far as Marx goes, tens of millions of people were killed by governments called "Marxist". One Marxist apology is that he was misunderstood and people just didn't get the implementation right somehow. How many tens of millions will die in Marxism Ver. 2?

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Probably a lot, and that is regrettable. People don't learn from the mistakes of their forefathers. And I think one of the biggest problems is that there are still social inequities, and they spawn these movements. Sometimes they spawn good ones like democracy instead. But they will continue as long as people are truly oppressed.

The political dynamic in Saudi Arabia is very interesting. Those same government appointed clerics are what bin Laden hates, because he thinks they are corrupt. Any deviation from fatwahs that are strictly shari'a in nature are decried by the very vocal, very conservative minority. I can't find it right now, but there was a recent history on Saudi Arabia that showed how the moves to liberalize were killed by that minority - which is generally armed and filled with a great fervor for their cause. The government is constantly being pulled towards them, but still wants to hold onto its wealth (which is its power).

I would say that the Saudi Government is moving away from its anti-Zionism though. It offered to recognise Israel last year, an unprecedented move for it. The resolution gained traction in the OIC, but kind of sputtered out from there. I'm sure you can find hundreds of examples on the opposite side, and I won't necessarily discount them, but I do think this is an important first step.

It's the second half of the Koran that prescribes a system of society (including government). Most interpretations of this are at odds with bin Laden, Qutb, etc. But because its terms can be hidden among quotations, it offers relevance to many.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Marxist by any stretch, and I hope I'm not conveying anything of the sort. I'm not really an adherent to any extremism.