What is it to be Christian ?

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by Flint

Is there or isn't there an athiest conspiracy to attack God?I have no problem with the message of Jesus. I've commented on the observable institution of Christianity.

It's not an atheist conspiracy. It's the culmination of many years of rejecting God on a nationwide scale combined with the hypocrisy of Christians themselves. I switched to the words "emulating Christ" because the word "Christianity" has acquired so much baggage through the years that has nothing to do with its real definition.

Originally Posted by Undertoad

Nood you describe an odd picture of what the culture is; I think it's by your need to paint a picture that redeems your beliefs, instead of the other way around. You're seeing what you want to see.

Mmmaybe. I don't think so, though. There has always been good and bad in the world, so it's not as if we are more wicked now than ever before. In that respect, it's true that it's business as usual. However, in this country, we are culturally becoming morally bankrupt. For example, we have eliminated slavery, but what have we replaced it with? Glocks, pimps, and "baby daddies". By "we" I don't mean "whites", I mean the culture as a whole. Freedom of speech is no longer about the right to speak out against government. It's about how offensive you can be without anyone taking you to task on it.

Either that, or Colorado is totally insane. I'm not ruling that out.

I can't argue with this.

I attended schools for 18 years and not once did anyone commit a murder at any of them, much less a mass one. I have worked at and consulted for (...counts... aw fuggit) about 30 different companies and not once did anyone commit a murder at any of them. There was a guy who lost it, but he only became convinced that he was working on a super-secret AT&T project, and had to be escorted out.

Although most kids will never see a murder happen, there is a 100% increase in school shootings nationwide. It was inconceivable at one time that anything like that could possibly occur. Now, you can't go a month without an incident cropping up. What changed between then and now? Guns are harder to get, security is tighter, laws are more strictly enforced. Something has fundamentally changed in the minds of these kids and in the adults that care for them -- what is it?

Don't watch the news and listen to the sermon and take that as your reality. Look around and see the reality for yourself. In the reality I notice, people go to their schools and learn, spend most of ther time working at their jobs, and try in vain to get a little bit of entertainment at the end of the day.

If something occurs and you hear about it on the news, it's reality. It doesn't immediately affect my small bubble of existence necessarily, but it's real. And the problems are growing, not receding. It's nice that most of us are still able to function in our lives without being touched by the worst of these crimes. So were the victims, until it happened to them.

Everything...! Mocked and derided! Please. I mock and deride this statement as obviously false.

It's considered ridiculous for someone to remain a virgin until marriage. Nothing is funnier than mocking someone's religious beliefs -- those sheep. MTV2's icon is Cerberus, the 3-headed guardian of the gates of hades. Truth in advertising, that -- the music that's popular glorifies death, both physical and spiritual. There are still songs about normal things, but they're sharing more and more airtime with odes to suicide, hopelessness, loveless sex, getting and staying high, and telling everyone else to fuck off. I'm in a metal band, I should know. The anger and fear that used to fuel aggression and rebellion in the fringe of the music scene is mainstream now. No one knows what they're rebelling against, they just want to feel the power that comes from anger. Kids cut themselves for no reason. Nothing is shocking -- you can find beheading videos, images of massacre and rape (the real thing), and pedophilia with 5 minutes and an internet connection. I laugh at ytmnd.com, but check out the nsfw version of their forums. These are kids. They haven't even started shaving yet, but they've learned to ridicule the mentally and physically handicapped, where to find the best fisting footage, and what a head looks like after being hit with buckshot. Seriously, go check it out. These are normal kids, just trying to outshock each other, but what are the long term effects of constantly soaking in this imagery and hatred?

What you really want is for people to have a stronger moral basis in general, not specfically your moral basis, right?

I guess not. I think that real morality comes from God. You can approximate it without God in the mix, but at some point it fails to deliver. Like I said, the people who are so concerned that someone is going to "force" God on them might be better served worrying about what is being injected gradually. It's a lot more damaging. There have been superpowers before the USA, and they were just as -- if not more -- powerful, in the context of their time. Eventually they all collapsed under their excesses. We've only been around 200-odd years, and we're already feeling the strain. That's not a good sign.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

I switched to the words "emulating Christ" because the word "Christianity" has acquired so much baggage through the years that has nothing to do with its real definition.

I've said this before, ad nauseum, but I'm not imposing a definition upon Christianity. I'm using the most obvious definition possible. If an institution calls itself Christianity, I take that self-definition at face value. I don't need to do any semantic trickery. There should be no confusion about whether I am discussing theoretical Christianity or actual Christianity. When I say Christianity, I mean simply that. Nothing more, nothing less. Christianity: the actual thing that actually exists.

Accordingly: I'm asuming that any persons who choose to define themselves as Christian will understand that this logically implies membership in the observable institution of Christianity. The actual Christianity, not the theoretical one.

[mrnoodle]

Originally Posted by Flint

I've said this before, ad nauseum, but I'm not imposing a definition upon Christianity. I'm using the most obvious definition possible. If an institution calls itself Christianity, I take that self-definition at face value. I don't need to do any semantic trickery. There should be no confusion about whether I am discussing theoretical Christianity or actual Christianity. When I say Christianity, I mean simply that. Nothing more, nothing less. Christianity: the actual thing that actually exists.

Accordingly: I'm asuming that any persons who choose to define themselves as Christian will understand that this logically implies membership in the observable institution of Christianity. The actual Christianity, not the theoretical one.

I'm not accusing you of playing semantics. "Christian" means "Christ-like". No matter how impressive the buildings, the choir robes, the Popemobile, or the rituals, Christianity is the condition of following Christ, not the religious, legalistic accoutrements. I was just clarifying that.

Originally Posted by HM

What's "Judeo-Christian philosophy"? If it's the Old Testament, then it is just Jewish. If it is Old and New Testament, then it's just Christian. Is it bits and pieces taken from philosophers of each persuasion?

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

They're not talking about Vishnu.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

They're not talking about Vishnu.

Christianity does not have a patent on God.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

"Christian" means "Christ-like". No matter how impressive the buildings, the choir robes, the Popemobile, or the rituals, Christianity is the condition of following Christ, not the religious, legalistic accoutrements.

So, what should I call people who call themselves Christians?
The most respectful thing for me to do is honor their own wishes to be called Christians.

Originally Posted by Flint

...I'm not imposing a definition upon Christianity.

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by mrnoodle

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."

They're not talking about Vishnu.

They're not talking about the Christian god, either. Or they're talking about both. They leave it up to the reader to fill in the blank. This makes sense, as they certainly were not all Christians themselves.

[Undertoad]

but what are the long term effects of constantly soaking in this imagery and hatred?

You tell us; you're soaking in it.

You're so fixated on it, you think it's the predominant culture.

Glocks, pimps, and baby daddy. Where do they appear on Wikipedia's list of the 50 top grossing films in the US and Canada?

In which of those films would you find any one of the three cultural notes you find so significant?

None. Not one. In fact, out of the fifty films, there's really only one that's a big long soak in hatred and violence and ugly subculture.

It's currently #11, "Passion of the Christ".