Armed America

[jinx]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

These commentaries really don't help your argument,

At this point I'm considering buying a gun out of spite, simply because your continued argument is so annoying. A handgun goddamnit...

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by jinx

At this point I'm considering buying a gun out of spite, simply because your continued argument is so annoying. A handgun goddamnit...

Because you don't agree? Tell me more.

[Jordan]

Personal attacks? let's not resort to that in public, it would make us both look rather foolish.

If something has never happened to you, and it has happened once to me it seems to me as though I am indeed 100% ahead. Let's break it down into a simple points based system: One to nothing would be a 100% lead, two to one would be a 50% lead and so on. The situation I was in has never occured to you and here's hoping it never does.

Tell me, when these handgun wielding criminals are not deterred by these laws you propose, what then? Criminals don't care about laws, they willingly break them in order to gain whatever their objective is. This is what makes them criminals. I should lose my rights because someone else was violent, malicious or just plain negligent?

How about those people who actually use their rifles for hunting? People in the deep woods or Appalachians who use the meat they hunt to provide food for their subsistence? They should lose their ability to provide fresh meat? The government doesn't help them enough and some are just too proud to sign up for it. It's not a way oflife that i would choose but that's their choice, that's their way of life. Who are you to turn them into criminals by outlawing their guns and living that way?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Jordan

...
One to nothing would be a 100% lead,....

That's incorrect, but outside the scope of this discussion.

Originally Posted by Jordan

Tell me, when these handgun wielding criminals are not deterred by these laws you propose, what then?

I answered that - go back and read. I don't want to

Originally Posted by Jordan

Criminals don't care about laws, they willingly break them in order to gain whatever their objective is. This is what makes them criminals. I should lose my rights because someone else was violent, malicious or just plain negligent?

Yes, it happens all the time.

Originally Posted by Jordan

How about those people who actually use their rifles for hunting? ...

Again, read the thread. I have only spoken out against handguns.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by jinx

At this point I'm considering buying a gun out of spite, simply because your continued argument is so annoying. A handgun goddamnit...

BTW, you've hurt my feelings.

[jinx]

Well I'm sorry Spexx, I don't want you to hurt your feelings. But my god man, you've been arguing for page after page and aren't really saying anything (yes, I know I don't have to read, but I did, and now I'm commenting).
The right to own guns is guaranteed in the constitution, end of story. The need to own guns, however subjective, is clearly felt and has been well explained by several posters. Nucular weapons, future criminals, and fantasy worlds where guns don't exist do not belong in an intelligent conversation about gun rights.

If I felt the need to own a gun, to protect myself and my children, while my husband works long hours in a different state, why would you argue with me? Keep in mind that we don't have local police - just the state police about 1/2 hour away. Why do you think I should, hypothetically, give up my handgun?

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by jinx

The right to own guns is guaranteed in the constitution, end of story.

I don't think it's the end of the story. The constitution has changed, and will change again. There was no guarantee for women's voting rights in the "original" constitution, now there is. Same with slavery, and alcohol has been ok, forbidden, and made ok again. We're pretty fickle with the constitution.

Originally Posted by jinx

Nucular weapons, future criminals, and fantasy worlds where guns don't exist do not belong in an intelligent conversation about gun rights.

If you can't imagine a better world, you'll never acheive it.

Originally Posted by jinx

If I felt the need to own a gun, to protect myself and my children, while my husband works long hours in a different state, why would you argue with me? Keep in mind that we don't have local police - just the state police about 1/2 hour away. Why do you think I should, hypothetically, give up my handgun?

You can use other means to protect yourselves, like alarms, barbed wire, whatever. Your having handguns available means that handguns are available to others, who can use them against you and yours. No handguns, less chance little Johnny gets accidentally shot by his friend, or purposely shot by his girlfriend's ex-boyfriend.

You can protect yourself with other weapons, including rifle and shotgun. I feel that a world with rifles and shotguns would be better than a world with handguns because they cannot be hidden as easily, and therefore cannot be used in crimes as easily.

There's two good (IMHO) reasons. There's more in the thread.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

If you can't imagine a better world, you'll never acheive it.

The difficulty is imagining better people to inhabit this world.

bit from Serenity
Reynolds-Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave.

Communism was another one of these wonderful ideas that forgot to consider people.
The gun folks envision a world where criminals are the ones who live in fear. They envision a world where individuals take responsibility for their own saftey. Your vision is in conflict with their vision.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by jinx

If I felt the need to own a gun, to protect myself and my children, while my husband works long hours in a different state, why would you argue with me? Keep in mind that we don't have local police - just the state police about 1/2 hour away. Why do you think I should, hypothetically, give up my handgun?

Sorry, but one more thing. If you plan to protect yourself from something like a home invasion, you'd better have your handgun with you, ready to fire. If your gun is in the bedroom, or locked in a safe, before you can get to the gun the invader will have bashed in your skull with Jim's old bowling trophy.

Now, if you are carrying the gun around the house, or keep it in a convenient place, it's much more likely to be gotten a hold of by the kids, with the result possibly being injury or death. That's a risk I'm not willing to take, in my house with my family. The likelihood of a home invasion is much less than the likelihood of misuse or accident.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

Now, if you are carrying the gun around the house, or keep it in a convenient place, it's much more likely to be gotten a hold of by the kids, with the result possibly being injury or death. That's a risk I'm not willing to take, in my house with my family. The likelihood of a home invasion is much less than the likelihood of misuse or accident.

That's precisely the point, I'm not telling you what to do in your house. You don't seem to feel the same.


But yes, guns can be such a bother. Now I have to drive all the way to Boothwyn, must be 3 or 4 miles, to pick up another gun I've won. The 7th I've won IIRC.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That's precisely the point, I'm not telling you what to do in your house. You don't seem to feel the same.
....

How many times have I said V-O-L-U-N-T-A-R-Y?

[xoxoxoBruce]

How many times have I said no? :p

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How many times have I said no? :p

Then recant this:

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That's precisely the point, I'm not telling you what to do in your house. You don't seem to feel the same.
....

Since it's precisely NOT the point, as I'm not telling you what to do in your house.

I'm appealing to reason. You don't have to see reason.

[xoxoxoBruce]

You appeal is not reasonable. It's also not logical nor would it be effective.
Use your head...you want me to voluntarily give up just my hand guns. Ok, how do I do that?

If I sell them, then someone else will have them, so how does that help? The guy that buys them might live next door to you.

Maybe I should put them in the Goodwill or Salvation Army collection boxes. That would get them into the right hands, huh?

How about beating them into plowshares? Nope, don't farm anymore.

Are you suggesting I destroy $11,000 worth of hand guns, that aren't hurting anybody, that are safely locked away, that don't make a stinkin' bit of difference in your life or anyone else's but my own, and if destroyed still wouldn't make a damn bit of difference to anyone but me?

Is that what you want, bunkie? Would that put your mind at ease? Would that let you sleep better?

Get a fuckin' life, Hillary.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I'm appealing to reason. You don't have to see reason.

Maybe you're being funny, maybe you aren't, but as a reasonable man I assure you you are appealing not to reason but to unreason -- and your own at that.

I am losing patience with you.

You're asking the rest of us to please be victims -- to satisfy your incomplete notion of civilized behavior. That's bullshit, that's immoral, and you need to be struck across the face. You're a pro-crime guy, Spexx, not a civilized man as a martial artist or a Heinlein fan would understand the term. You prove this with every post you make in pursuit of your monomaniac immorality here. We, the civilized, reject your anticivilization viewpoint and all its arguments. Our moral position -- that resisting evil actively is a mitzvah, regardless of how much violence evil may bring into the contest -- is so immeasurably superior to yours that we can keep you in a condition of defeat without effort, and for all time. You may die in your error, Spexx, but you cannot take us in with you.