Chief Illiniwek

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The Smithsonian has had a considerable collection of Indian stuff, long before it became fashionable to break up their stuff into dedicated museums.
That's just a fund raising ploy, anyway.

True, they've had a lot of Indian Stuff for a long time, but isn't it a little bit possible the Native American Museum was built to show more of that stuff? Though, The Smithsonian does need funds to keep going; I don't think they're trying pull anything over on the public.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You're an expert on what people think and why? Why are you determined to educate the public about what Indians are doing now.
I suspect as long as you don't interfere with them doing their thing, most people have more than a passing interest in, or care if, you're doing your thing. That was the general idea when the Constitution was written. Granted, it's been severely strained, but it's still a good idea.
Case in point, most people don't even know what their Congress Critters are doing and that's something that effects them profoundly.

You got that right. I think of everyone that belongs here as Americans. I'd rather dwell on what we have in common, even though that's become unfashionable. Everyone is running around declaring they are different, they are special, which is usually followed by why they should get preferential treatment.

What I understand from this is that you consider cultural diversity as something merely in fashion, and you think that when someone shares information about other cultures, they're wasting their time. OK, fine. But that contradicts your apparent interest in The Smithsonian.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Foul. Culture is an English word. It can't have a different meaning for different communities. You have to establish what the word culture encompasses. Once thats established, the circumstances, the problems, and solutions can vary from place to place but not the definition of culture. You've just proven my statement that people used it as a catch all, by doing just that.

I didn't say the word "culture" has different definitions. I said the same thing you're saying now.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

You have no idea what I know. You said We were both talking about a specific individual . I said Still speaking of a specific individual and his circumstances. I still say your statement was bullshit applied to that specific individual.
I don't care how many return to their roots, I wasn't discussing that. I was talking about how one individual escaped a hell hole and became a productive member of a community instead of living on welfare and bitching. Again, if you can't support yourself where you're at, move.

Alright. But this specific individual's circumstances seem to form the basis of your opinion that Native Americans overall have these circumstances. I presented to you another scenario. Sorry you're not interested in it.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That's right they didn't. The smart ones adjusted, adapted and evolved with the developing circumstances. The ones that persisted in fighting went the way of the Sandhill Cranes. Human beings? More specific than that, Americans. I don't think any of the tribes are issuing passports yet, are they?
I really don't care what they are doing north or south of our borders.

There's more to it than that. Some tribes didn't fight, and didn't survive long enough to adapt. There are others who fought who are still around. The matter of smart vs. not smart, won vs. got their ass kicked can't be applied as a sweeping generalization to all Native Americans. And Native Americans are not only those who live within the U.S. borders. You may not care about any of this, but that's reality.

All I can do is share my point of view and the facts I know. If someone makes statements which look like they're based on error or lack of knowledge, I like to try to help out. Isn't that what we all do here, more or less?

As an aside, I don't know a thing about Sandhill Cranes and figured they were extinct or close to it based on your analogy, so I looked 'em up and found out that, "Sandhill Cranes are the most abundant of the world’s cranes."

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

True, they've had a lot of Indian Stuff for a long time, but isn't it a little bit possible the Native American Museum was built to show more of that stuff? Though, The Smithsonian does need funds to keep going; I don't think they're trying pull anything over on the public.

Sure it was, but I think the wasted space in the design could have been put to better use displaying more things. They never have enough space to display it all. I agree the Smithsonian isn't trying to pull a fast one, they've just discovered they can raise more money having specific museums to target specific groups for support. Right now they need a ton of money to restore/repair the Castle and some other older buildings that are falling apart.

What I understand from this is that you consider cultural diversity as something merely in fashion, and you think that when someone shares information about other cultures, they're wasting their time. OK, fine. But that contradicts your apparent interest in The Smithsonian.

Yes I see it's in fashion and being jammed down peoples throats where I work. I feel cultural diversity is the most insidious and divisive ploy perpetrated on the American citizens, ever. Divide and conquer. Play down what we all have in common, the thing that unites us, and weaken the voice of the people that keeps the government and big business in check.

Those people down the block, those people in the next town, those people that live south/north/east/west of you, they are [chilling voice] different. [voice] Damn, those people are different....I wonder if they eat babies. We have nobody to protect us except.....wait for it.......the government.

You've heard the government should fear the people, not the people fear the government. Well the government doesn't have to fear a people that are so divided they can't raise a collective objection. And wouldn't because they need Uncle Sam to protect them from the baby eaters.

I find different groups and their customs/lifestyles interesting. But I haven't the time left on Earth to investigate them in depth...there's just too many. Just around Philly there's a whole bunch of diverse groups like the Mennonites, Amish, Quakers and more.

I didn't say the word "culture" has different definitions. I said the same thing you're saying now.

OK.

Alright. But this specific individual's circumstances seem to form the basis of your opinion that Native Americans overall have these circumstances. I presented to you another scenario. Sorry you're not interested in it.

The reservation this guy escaped from and many more I've either seen myself or on PBS, have nothing to offer, no work, no commerce, sometimes no schools, and no money to change that, evidently.
I understand you're saying there are viable reservations or communities that do offer opportunity. But my saying bullshit was to the suggestion that this guy should entertain that possibility. It's an impossibility, not because he's dismissed his roots, but because it's just not possible there.

There's more to it than that. Some tribes didn't fight, and didn't survive long enough to adapt. There are others who fought who are still around. The matter of smart vs. not smart, won vs. got their ass kicked can't be applied as a sweeping generalization to all Native Americans. And Native Americans are not only those who live within the U.S. borders. You may not care about any of this, but that's reality.

If they don't live in the US then I don't care what they think, especially about Wahoo or Illiniwek.

All I can do is share my point of view and the facts I know. If someone makes statements which look like they're based on error or lack of knowledge, I like to try to help out. Isn't that what we all do here, more or less?

Certainly, that's why when I disagree I argue my position, rather than dismiss or ignore, call you names, or question your intelligence.
You know...... don't take in personal, don't make it personal.

As an aside, I don't know a thing about Sandhill Cranes and figured they were extinct or close to it based on your analogy, so I looked 'em up and found out that, "Sandhill Cranes are the most abundant of the world’s cranes."

In the US, Sandhills are one of the birds they hand raise and lead their migration with someone in an ultra-light playing Mama. The Sandhills came to mind because of a recent news item saying this year's migration to Florida resulted in all but one of the babies being killed by tornados.

This very sad picture of Five Crows, at his grandsons Arlington funeral, was in the Washington Post, a couple months ago. A lot of people saw this picture in the paper and on the net.
I refuse to believe that ANYONE seeing this picture thinks of Wahoo. Or seeing Wahoo in the spring, they will think of Five Crows.