A Town Willing To Enforce The Law

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's a band-aid, Jebediah. A band-aid on a sore caused by blood poisoning. It's shouldn't be necessary and distracts resources from the real problem.

[rigcranop]

Originally Posted by Ibram

Why should they HAVE to learn English? The whole point of not having an official language is so we can SUPPORT immigrants of all types, among other reasons.

If they dont want to learn english, they don't have to - but at the same time, can't complain that they didnt.

Should we HAVE to support their refusal to learn the english (american) language? Should we provide translations for all the worlds languages in all forms of communications and media? Should we HAVE to train emergency personnel in the worlds languages (at our expense) so they can get the emergency care or services the refusers need? Should we HAVE to train everyone in heavy industry, so that those who refuse to learn the language, can be warned of a dangerous or possibly lethal situation?

[rigcranop]

This is Brian R,s home turf. Weigh in, sir.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by rigcranop

Should we HAVE to support their refusal to learn the english (american) language? Should we provide translations for all the worlds languages in all forms of communications and media? Should we HAVE to train emergency personnel in the worlds languages (at our expense) so they can get the emergency care or services the refusers need? Should we HAVE to train everyone in heavy industry, so that those who refuse to learn the language, can be warned of a dangerous or possibly lethal situation?

Please re-read what he wrote. He said if they refuse to learn the language they should expect not complain about the consequences.

When you read the whole post I can't figure out what he stand for, having English as the standard language or not?

Originally Posted by Ibram

Why should they HAVE to learn English? The whole point of not having an official language is so we can SUPPORT immigrants of all types, among other reasons.

If they dont want to learn english, they don't have to - but at the same time, can't complain that they didnt.

Similarly, integration into society should be neither forbidden nor mandatory; integration is optional, but if you refuse to americanize yourself, don't complain about the consequences.

[Aliantha]

What he means is if you don't learn the language you just don't get the same service as you would without. That is, no automatic interpretation at tax payers expense for example. So, if you choose not to learn the language, it's on your own head, but we're (you're) not going to subsidise your ignorance.

[piercehawkeye45]

What I got out of it is that we should not force someone to learn English but we should also not go out of our way to accommodate them if they choose not too.

That is my view too so maybe I misread it to satisfy my bias.

That is my view as well. Our documents, schools, signs, courts, etc, should all be in/conducted in English alone.
If someone chooses to spend their life with their personal interpreter at their side... have at it.

[Ibby]

I think government functions - except maybe signs, just for simplicity - should be pan-lingual on demand. End of story.

Businesses, on the other hand, can make the choice for themselves. Immigrants can't complain if a business decides to internally conduct business only in english (though the business may suffer for it).

Standardizing a language for your business is NOT discrimination. Standardizing a language for a country that intentionally and deliberately has no official language just so the 'damn dirty mexicans' wont come over, is.

Pan-lingual for simplicity? Suuuuuurrrre.
Who said Mexicans? Why is everyone who is Latino a Mexican? Why are all non-English speaking immigrants Mexicans?

I can never figure this out?

[Ibby]

What?

I said english signs for simplicity, panligualism on demand for all other government functions.

And I was making fun of stupid bigoted rightwingers who only want to make english the official language to spite immigrants, especially illegal ones from mexico - like the article.

[xoxoxoBruce]

How many languages are going to be on those sign? You going to let people drive that can't read the signs or the rules? Can you say 6 pound traffic ticket?

How many piles of instructions at the IRS? Or the Post Office? Motor Vehicle Department? Hospital? Menus?
Chinese? Portuguese (which is as common as Spanish in the Americas)? French? Italian? Hindi? German?
Be big signs/piles, methinks.
A common language gives people something is common instead of the division that's eating away Canada.

It's not bigoted to make the country function like a country instead of like the ineffectual UN. Start thinking beyond a hypothetical situation, a classroom exercise in what would be desirable in a perfect world.

The world doesn't work that way, when you look at the realities of execution. When you start putting up the poles and painting signs people can read without stopping in the middle of the road. When you have to take the neighbors house by eminent domain, just to house the piles of instructions.


And pay for it.

[Ibby]

Bruce, as long as I'm not allowed to vote, and dont have to pay taxes, I can be as unrealistic and utopian as I wish. Thats the great thing about being outside the system; you arent bound by it.

[xoxoxoBruce]

True, but best to understand it before getting there, because it will crush you in a most painful way if you don't know how, or when,to play it.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How many languages are going to be on those sign?

I'd say two: English and Spanish. They're the most prevalent languages in our country right now.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

How many piles of instructions at the IRS? Or the Post Office? Motor Vehicle Department? Hospital? Menus?

My workplace has all the legally required signs in both English and Spanish. Its not that big of a deal. But, IRS forms? That'd be crazy! Think of the hell it would be if they had to put IRS information in Spanish-- oh, wait, here it is.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Chinese? Portuguese (which is as common as Spanish in the Americas)? French? Italian? Hindi? German?

If you fly into Hartsfield International Airport in Atlanta, you'll notice that the digital signs on the tram scroll through at least eight languages, including the ones you've listed as well as Japanese and Korean. This change, made during the 1996 Olympic games, probably isn't entirely needed, but is helpful to people navigating the airport. Another major international destination, Disney World, has a monorail that makes announcements in English and Spanish, as studies done by Disney show that guests to the park that speak other languages are highly likely to also speak English as a second language. Spanish was the only exception, statistically, so it made sense to provide two announcements. No chaos broke out from either of these changes.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The world doesn't work that way, when you look at the realities of execution. When you start putting up the poles and painting signs people can read without stopping in the middle of the road.

Admittedly, I had trouble "inspection", but road signs in Mexico aren't that difficult for non-Spanish speakers. I probably wouldn't speed through the red octagon marked 'ALTO' so, somehow, I don't think most English road signs are much more difficult for Spanish speakers in the US.

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

When you have to take the neighbors house by eminent domain, just to house the piles of instructions.

Agreed -- we can't translate everything into every language in the world. Now, what happens in our future when a US city/county/state becomes so populated with Spanish speakers that English becomes the minority? (For some cities and counties, I'm sure this already applies.) Will your suggestions still follow and will the dual signs come down in favor of Spanish only instructions? How would you feel navigating without the aid of English signs in one of these cities/states? Luckily, you won't be forced to learn Spanish, but...

Whatever our governments do, I'm strongly suggesting no one remove the required sign that reads "Lavarse Las Manos!" from any of the restaurants I dine in.