U.S. Can Not Detain Legal Residents Without Charge

[bluecuracao]

There is a lot of propoganda floating around out there--and if you trace it to its source, it all comes from organized groups. They try to disguise it as random opinion, but there's always something sketchy about it.

[DanaC]

The thing is, in Europe we had a rather sharp lesson about what happens when hate groups are allowed to fester unhindered. On the whole, over the years, very few people have actually gone far enough to be prosecutable, and even then mostly juries throw them out. It's a fine line similar to the line just described between talking about, and planning to.

The exceptions to that are symbols like swastikas, or holocaust denial. The holocaust denial bit I think is taken as a slander against the Jewish race. Swastikas, because of what they stand for in European culture, are seen as inherently inciting racial hatred.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Well, no--that sort of thing is not protected under the Constitution. They can do it, and not be arrested for it, though.

It's the First Amendment he's referring to. Free speech means Klansmen, Black Panthers, anybody.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

If someone can explain or show me some evidence that this sort of talk is not harmful then I'm all ears (or eyes as the case may be).

It's not that hate speech isn't harmful. It's that we're not willing to risk the possibility that by restricting their speech, someone will someday find a way to restrict our own. We are, as a nation, deeply against anything that even appears to be a slippery slope.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

rkz, I'm assuming from your posts that you think it's ok for Klan meetings to take place and as long as they only talk about how much they hate non whites and only say the things they'd like to do to them it's ok?

"Only talk about"?
What do you mean by that?
They can talk about what ever they want. That is freedom. Just because people don't like it does not mean they don't have the right.
Our beliefs disgust them as much as theirs disgust us. It is the SAME THING.
People are dying now so they continue to have the right to speak their mind.
It is the reason our nation was formed.

In Skokie IL, the Civil Liberties Union defended the Klan's right to demonstrate in that very Jewish town

A Jewish man defended them, a patriot.

You dislike them so much, do you only talk about it? Same thing.
Perhaps we should not just limit their rights like the Nazis did the Jews in Germany, as Europe is doing now... perhaps we should make them wear a symbol on their clothing? Is that good enough? Why let them breed? Why not just get rid of them for good?

[bluecuracao]

Originally Posted by Clodfobble

It's the First Amendment he's referring to. Free speech means Klansmen, Black Panthers, anybody.



It's not that hate speech isn't harmful. It's that we're not willing to risk the possibility that by restricting their speech, someone will someday find a way to restrict our own. We are, as a nation, deeply against anything that even appears to be a slippery slope.

Yes, I know he's referring to the First Amendment, and I am aware that it applies to everybody. Just as it applies to everybody, when the expressions of views cross the line over to conduct. Conspiring to harm and personal intimidation are not protected by the First Amendment.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Personal intimidation is not protected, but looking scary is. Just because someone is afraid doesn't make it rational or reasonable.
Just because someone cowers in the corner booth, when a bunch of fierce looking bikers enter the bar, doesn't make it their fault. Nor are they compelled to change their dress or swagger.

When I worked in LA I used to joke around with my, actual/original, southern dialect (before I neutralized it). It was a predominantly gay company, very PC.
I was called into my boss' office because it "scared" some of my fellow office members.
I laughed and did not stop.
That kind of stuff should be ignored...
People do not have a right not to be afraid of others.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

There is a lot of propoganda floating around out there--and if you trace it to its source, it all comes from organized groups. They try to disguise it as random opinion, but there's always something sketchy about it.

Well stated. I see it that way as well.

Originally Posted by Aliantha
rkz, I'm assuming from your posts that you think it's ok for Klan meetings to take place and as long as they only talk about how much they hate non whites and only say the things they'd like to do to them it's ok?

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

"Only talk about"?
What do you mean by that?
They can talk about what ever they want. That is freedom. Just because people don't like it does not mean they don't have the right.
Our beliefs disgust them as much as theirs disgust us. It is the SAME THING.
People are dying now so they continue to have the right to speak their mind.
It is the reason our nation was formed.

A Jewish man defended them, a patriot.

You dislike them so much, do you only talk about it? Same thing.
Perhaps we should not just limit their rights like the Nazis did the Jews in Germany, as Europe is doing now... perhaps we should make them wear a symbol on their clothing? Is that good enough? Why let them breed? Why not just get rid of them for good?

Heeelllllooooooooo?

[Aliantha]

hello what?

My point is that one thing leads to another.

You think it's ok for people to talk about doing violence but it's not ok for them to actually do it.

If they weren't thinking about doing it, they wouldn't be talking about it.

Yep, I'm glad you're proud to live in a country that openly allows such bigotry and hate to go unchecked.

You go ahead and defend the rights of those racists to be the arseholes that they are.

One day when their talk leads to actions which affect your family then come and tell me how it's their right to plot and plan their evil deeds.

When did I say anything about violence?
Evil deeds? LOL!!!
One is the same as another, theirs and those who would do unto them... the SAME, identical.

[Aliantha]

It is not the same because normal rational people don't hate other people based on the colour of their skin.

Normal rational people don't hold meetings and get togethers with their friends and talk about the foul things they'd like to do to people who don't look just like them.

Do they? Or is it that different in America that those sorts of behaviours are considered normal?

Normal, rational, people don't want to have more rights than others.
Elitists and fascists do... that's the definition of both of those words.

[Aliantha]

yes well I'm not going to debates rights again. It's been done to death already.

I disagree with you and your defense of your constitutional rights. I don't buy it and I never will. You all talk of freedom and yet from the outside it simply doesn't appear that anyone is free. I'm sure you feel differently. You've said so many times. I simply don't agree that what you have is that great and I don't believe it's as black and white as you do.

Other laws restict people's behaviours if they want to live in a so called 'free' society. Laws to do with how much alcohol you are 'free' to drink if you want to drive a car. Laws to do with being quiet when you go to watch a trial. Laws to do with which side of the road you drive on. Laws are created to protect the innocent.

How many more innocent people have to suffer for your freedom?

No, what I said is that most people can't handle freedom and you prove it.