Ending God's Tax Exempt Status

[HungLikeJesus]

I don't know how this thread shifted to immigration, but...

Do people really want population growth, and all the things that come with that? More traffic, more crowding, more visitors (and hence more damage) to national forests, parks, monuments, etc., more resource consumption, more pollution, more crime, ...

I would prefer negative population growth, both in the US and in the rest of the world.

What is the advantage to increasing the population?

[bluecuracao]

Oh yes, you did imply that, rk.

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Being selective about who we allow to be Americans is our right and fair

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

Just because more people want to come here than most nations does NOT mean that we should let more in.

[DanaC]

The difference is, you favor exclusion, while I favor inclusion. You favor keeping people out, except for the ones we let in. I favor letting people in, except for the ones we keep out.

You've just summed up my attitude to immigration.

What is the advantage to increasing the population?

Well as long as it also means your population is getting younger (which is often the case with immigration) it helps offset the 'pension timebomb' by having a large population of working age people paying taxes to enable the country to maintain social security for those who are past working age.

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by Ibram

The difference is, you favor exclusion, while I favor inclusion. You favor keeping people out, except for the ones we let in. I favor letting people in, except for the ones we keep out.

You have summed up my attitude as well. One additional caveat is that I include the entire planet when I think about 'us.' I'd like to do what's best for 'us,' not just the US. Get it? Pun!

And calm down about the parents comment. I've lived and worked on my own for many years now, and done pretty well for myself. The comment I made was to point out that the reason I have what I have is based largely on where and to whom I was born. Well, actually it's just to whom, I was born out of country.

Do your parents share your views, either partially or completely?

I'm wondering what you're getting at, but for the most part I have similar views as my parents, yes. I think the only thing I can think of is pops is in favor of limiting hate speech whereas I am not. I'm sure there are others. Why?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Just wondering where you came up with your views.

[queequeger]

Yeah, I only think this way because of my parents. Otherwise I'd probably vote republican. Stay the course and all that!


Buy American.

Originally Posted by bluecuracao

Oh yes, you did imply that, rk.

You have no idea what you are talking about, much of my family are legal immigrants, the closest thing to a grandmother on my mother's side, many uncles and aunts (my favorite aunt), many close friends (several who were in my wedding party) are legal immigrants. I have helped two become citizens.
I love this nation and what it means to be an American, which is often to be an immigrant but it ALWAYS means to be a member of a nation of laws.
There are reasons some cannot become a citizen, you don't seem to give a shit about that.
I don't want felons or violent politicos to become citizens and they should not, so we exclude them. Good.
I don't want criminals to become citizens, so when someone comes here illegally (a criminal) we exclude them. Good.
If they cannot become a productive member of this society in any way, we exclude them. Good.
There is nothing wrong with any of those things.
I do not want exclusion for this nation, I want inclusion, but by a system of laws and not unfair or laws that are out of step with the rest of the world.
As it is ours are more fair and more easily navigated than 95% of other nations, and I do not complain about that... what I do complain about are those that seem to think that we are evil for not just opening this nation to anyone and everyone. "Free USA, free everything everyone else here has worked for for generations to all who come no matter what you are going to do once you get her or what you have done prior".
It is a joke.
In no way does either of those statements imply that I want to exclude immigrants. I want fair legal immigration. Only that.

[queequeger]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

"Free USA, free everything everyone else here has worked for for generations."

Each person can only work for one lifetime. The point is, that I shouldn't get the benefit of my father's good fortune when someone else gets the negatives from their father's legacy. Frankly, it doesn't matter, or I guess I should say it shouldn't matter what your successors do either way. Each person should be given the same opportunities, regardless of birth. Isn't that a founding philosophy of the US?

[yesman065]

sounds more like socialism

Originally Posted by queequeger

Each person can only work for one lifetime. The point is, that I shouldn't get the benefit of my father's good fortune when someone else gets the negatives from their father's legacy. Frankly, it doesn't matter, or I guess I should say it shouldn't matter what your successors do either way. Each person should be given the same opportunities, regardless of birth. Isn't that a founding philosophy of the US?

Nope. I don't think that at all.
I think socialism and communism are the stupidest ideas ever put forth in the last 500 years.

There is no such thing as fair.

If someone was born in a shit-hole somewhere halfway around the world he/she does not have an inalienable right to be a US citizen.

Yes, I have a right to leave what is mine to my kids.

[yesman065]

But the do have the opportunity to try and come here LEGALLY - hopefully to do their part to make this country better,

Yup, they have the right to apply to come here legally, same as everyone else.

Not the same as being born with the right to BE a citizen.

[9th Engineer]

We have no obligation to let people in, yet you berate us for acting in our country's best interest. Quasi-moral, glass-half-empty-half-full criticisms of immigration policy do little good except increase your post count. The really substantial piece of information is WHY you favor this or that policy, and hopefully there is something more convincing then a general feeling of goodwill towards man.
When it comes down to it, the people who vote with vague notions are the onces who go for the politicians who are all bark and no bite.

Huh?

[Ibby]

Everything you've said has implied that.

Letting everyone who wants to come here is not an option.

"We have a better life than they do".
That does not mean we have an obligation to give it to them. Not in the slightest.

Just because more people want to come here than most nations does NOT mean that we should let more in.
That is a silly notion.