Ending God's Tax Exempt Status

[Ibby]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

The first quote is in reference to laws and ours are fair. The second was in reference to general situations and, though you obviously can't, most can read the whole context for themselves

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

This was divinely inspired… LOL!!!

Theological doctrines:

1. God is satisfied with his works
Gen 1:31
God is dissatisfied with his works.
Gen 6:6
2. God dwells in chosen temples
2 Chron 7:12,16
God dwells not in temples
Acts 7:48
3. God dwells in light
Tim 6:16
God dwells in darkness
1 Kings 8:12/ Ps 18:11/ Ps 97:2
4. God is seen and heard
Ex 33:23/ Ex 33:11/ Gen 3:9,10/ Gen 32:30/ Is 6:1/
Ex 24:9-11
God is invisible and cannot be heard
John 1:18/ John 5:37/ Ex 33:20/ 1 Tim 6:16
5. God is tired and rests
Ex 31:17
God is never tired and never rests
Is 40:28
6. God is everywhere present, sees and knows all things
Prov 15:3/ Ps 139:7-10/ Job 34:22,21
God is not everywhere present, neither sees nor knows all
things
Gen 11:5/ Gen 18:20,21/ Gen 3:8
7. God knows the hearts of men
Acts 1:24/ Ps 139:2,3
God tries men to find out what is in their heart
Deut 13:3/ Deut 8:2/ Gen 22:12
8. God is all powerful
Jer 32:27/ Matt 19:26
God is not all powerful
Judg 1:19
9. God is unchangeable
James 1:17/ Mal 3:6/ Ezek 24:14/ Num 23:19
God is changeable
Gen 6:6/ Jonah 3:10/ 1 Sam 2:30,31/ 2 Kings 20:1,4,5,6/
Ex 33:1,3,17,14
10. God is just and impartial
Ps 92:15/ Gen 18:25/ Deut 32:4/ Rom 2:11/ Ezek 18:25
God is unjust and partial
Gen 9:25/ Ex 20:5/ Rom 9:11-13/ Matt 13:12
11. God is the author of evil
Lam 3:38/ Jer 18:11/ Is 45:7/ Amos 3:6/ Ezek 20:25
God is not the author of evil
1 Cor 14:33/ Deut 32:4/ James 1:13
12. God gives freely to those who ask
James 1:5/ Luke 11:10
God withholds his blessings and prevents men from receiving
them
John 12:40/ Josh 11:20/ Is 63:17
13. God is to be found by those who seek him
Matt 7:8/ Prov 8:17
God is not to be found by those who seek him
Prov 1:28
14. God is warlike
Ex 15:3/ Is 51:15
God is peaceful
Rom 15:33/ 1 Cor 14:33
15. God is cruel, unmerciful, destructive, and ferocious
Jer 13:14/ Deut 7:16/ 1 Sam 15:2,3/ 1 Sam 6:19
God is kind, merciful, and good
James 5:11/ Lam 3:33/ 1 Chron 16:34/ Ezek 18:32/ Ps 145:9/
1 Tim 2:4/ 1 John 4:16/ Ps 25:8
16. God's anger is fierce and endures long
Num 32:13/ Num 25:4/ Jer 17:4
God's anger is slow and endures but for a minute
Ps 103:8/ Ps 30:5
17. God commands, approves of, and delights in burnt offerings,
sacrifices ,and holy days
Ex 29:36/ Lev 23:27/ Ex 29:18/ Lev 1:9
God disapproves of and has no pleasure in burnt offerings,
sacrifices, and holy days.
Jer 7:22/ Jer 6:20/ Ps 50:13,4/ Is 1:13,11,12
18. God accepts human sacrifices
2 Sam 21:8,9,14/ Gen 22:2/ Judg 11:30-32,34,38,39
God forbids human sacrifice
Deut 12:30,31
19. God tempts men
Gen 22:1/ 2 Sam 24:1/ Jer 20:7/ Matt 6:13
God tempts no man
James 1:13
20. God cannot lie
Heb 6:18
God lies by proxy; he sends forth lying spirits t deceive
2 Thes 2:11/ 1 Kings 22:23/ Ezek 14:9
21. Because of man's wickedness God destroys him
Gen 6:5,7
Because of man's wickedness God will not destroy him
Gen 8:21
22. God's attributes are revealed in his works.
Rom 1:20
God's attributes cannot be discovered
Job 11:7/ Is 40:28
23. There is but one God
Deut 6:4
There is a plurality of gods
Gen 1:26/ Gen 3:22/ Gen 18:1-3/ 1 John 5:7

(and that's only page one of three of those)

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by DanaC

Fines are proportionate to the offender's income: if you have vast wealth you gt fined more. Most people wouldn't get fined that much :P

I know that. So you feel 14 days income is proper for driving at 47 mph in a 31 mph zone? Sounds pretty severe to me. I believe that's gross, not net, income.

What was the point of quoting me off-topic from the other thread Ibram?

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I know that. So you feel 14 days income is proper for driving at 47 mph in a 31 mph zone? Sounds pretty severe to me. I believe that's gross, not net, income.

So I can pay my fine with pre-tax dollars?

[yesman065]

Originally Posted by rkzenrage

What was the point of quoting me off-topic from the other thread Ibram?

I think it was a reverence to context.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I know that. So you feel 14 days income is proper for driving at 47 mph in a 31 mph zone? Sounds pretty severe to me. I believe that's gross, not net, income.

Why should poorer people have to suffer more when they speed? That is to say that if the speeding fine is the same, then obviously it impacts the lower earners more so perhaps they learn more of a lesson because they're forced to give up a larger (by comparison) chunk of their income to pay the fine.

I had no idea they did this sort of thing, but i think it's a great idea personally.

$150 to someone who only earns $450 per week is a lot more than $150 to someone who earns $4500 per week.

[9th Engineer]

It's still disproportionate punishment though, care to try that logic in areas of justice other then traffic fines?

I think some speeding fines are too high, however, if someone cannot afford a fine, no matter what the crime the fine is for should the court just say "oh, they can't afford it... well, ok, let them off then". No.
The old saying still applies.
"Can't do the time/fine, don't do the crime".
I really dislike the attitude that people have that speeding is not really a crime.

[piercehawkeye45]

You can't use this technique on other areas of punishment, it can only be used on monetary punishments.

And it isn't disproportionate, it just isn't a set rate. It does make things more complicated but if you do want to break down a classist system, this is one way of doing it and that is obviously one of their priorities.

I really don't see how this is such a bad idea. Besides the whole rewards of being rich part, it gives people that break the law that happen to be rich something bigger than a slap on the wrist. If you make a million dollars a year, it is much easier just to take fines than it is to actually follow the law.

[Aliantha]

Originally Posted by 9th Engineer

It's still disproportionate punishment though, care to try that logic in areas of justice other then traffic fines?

Traffic fines are slightly different to most areas of justice.

Why is it disproportionate?

Besides the whole rewards of being rich part

What does that mean?
You think people should be punished just for being rich alone?
It seems like you think it is self-explanatory, it is not.

[Aliantha]

Surely you can figure it out rkz. If you're wealthy, you can generally buy most material objects and items without having to worry about the bills. That is one reward of being rich that I can think of.

It does make things more complicated but if you do want to break down a classist system,

I'm really curious as to what you mean by this.... I think my answer to it is probably, no I don't, if it means what I think it does.

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Surely you can figure it out rkz. If you're wealthy, you can generally buy most material objects and items without having to worry about the bills. That is one reward of being rich that I can think of.

Right, so does that mean he wants to set up a whole different set of punishments for people with money?

[Aliantha]

No, just fine them proportionately to their income. The same as a sliding tax scale which if my memory serves me correctly, you're opposed to also.