Britons named world's biggest emitters

[DanaC]

But I would still like the answer from Dana....on when will enough be enough because I give a flip about her opinion.

I dunno. When will it enough be enough in America? In another thread we see that your president and whitehouse can act outside of the law, on such things as phone tapping without a warrant. Yet Americans consistently point to our law enforcement and cameras and tell me that this is an invasion of our privacy.

If the people are requesting, nay demanding, more cctv, who are the police and politicians to deny them that? If the police have enough evidence to suspect a criminal, but not enough to issue an arrest warrant, should they just throw up their hands and say "oh well, let him go, don't bother watching him or attempting to gather evidence about his activities"?

Honestly Cicero, I think you guys have a strange view of freedom. There's a real double standard in what you allow in your own country and what you perceive as amiss in mine.

[ZenGum]

This may be the line Cicero is looking for:
CCTV cameras only film public places. (Checks "L" is correctly used in that phrase )

On the street, if there were a police officer, they could stand and keep an eye on you. I have no problem with that. Inside your home, the police need a good reason (or your permission) to enter.
I am fine with CCTV in public places. I am opposed to it if it is used inside peoples' homes, especially against their will.
This gives Dana her protection from street hoodlums, and Cicero her privacy - inside her own home. You can't expect privacy on the public street, can you?

Cicero, your arse-scratching is indeed your own business, but throwing out your garbage is, I believe, public business. Once it leaves your home, you expect the city to deal with it. What if Mr Burns decided to start putting nuclear waste in the domestic garbage?
Mind you, that can go pretty extreme. In Japan, you must (a) sort your garbage into appropriate categories and (b) put it out in transparent plastic bags, so that people can see if their neighbours are doing the right thing. Not shocked yet? When this was first introduced, you had (by law) to write your name and address on all the garbage you threw out! Even in Japan this was going too far, and they fell back to the clear bags bit, figuring that shame and neighbourly disapproval would do the trick. Mostly it does.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by DanaC

I dunno. When will it enough be enough in America? In another thread we see that your president and whitehouse can act outside of the law, on such things as phone tapping without a warrant. Yet Americans consistently point to our law enforcement and cameras and tell me that this is an invasion of our privacy.

If the people are requesting, nay demanding, more cctv, who are the police and politicians to deny them that? If the police have enough evidence to suspect a criminal, but not enough to issue an arrest warrant, should they just throw up their hands and say "oh well, let him go, don't bother watching him or attempting to gather evidence about his activities"?

Honestly Cicero, I think you guys have a strange view of freedom. There's a real double standard in what you allow in your own country and what you perceive as amiss in mine.

I'm not imposing these double-standards. I don't like it going on in my country, and it happened without my vote, so I have to sit around and work with people here of like mind that want the Patriot Act destroyed. I also don't like a lot of the policies in my own country, and it's hard for me to watch other countries adopt, and adapt policies we created that we won't even follow through with. Or are trying and haven't managed yet...This is a global situation and calling me an American with double-standards doesn't illuminate any fact about that. I watch this happen to myself without my consent, and it's just strange to watch people that adopt these policies on purpose. The "watch you scratch your butt" comment- well it stems from what is actually happening in America. I've been saying enough is enough before W got to the White House. I knew of the electronic surveilance before the patriot act and I stood in the streets and said enough was enough then too. Unfortunately...no one gives a shit.

My president? Well it's uncomfortable (that you put me and that guy in the same sentence), but it's true, he's "my president"...our president here has done tons of things I don't agree with and I traveled to his ranch to tell him so. I didn't vote for him, but then again, neither did a lot of people. I actively helped to campaign against him. That also didn't work. Don't tell me I have double-standards. I don't agree with these new surveillance societies straight across the board. Especially where I live.

Again, when is enough going to be enough? Do you have a direct answer for this question? How much of your privacy will you give up before you will say "this is enough for me to feel safe"? Is it what is in place now in your country, or do you think you guys need to take it further? This is an honest question I have here....I'm not trying to trash England and the vote of it's citizens! Seriously! I am trying to understand it. Genuinely.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Cicero

Again, when is enough going to be enough? Do you have a direct answer for this question? How much of your privacy will you give up before you will say "this is enough for me to feel safe"? Is it what is in place now in your country, or do you think you guys need to take it further? This is an honest question I have here....I'm not trying to trash England and the vote of it's citizens! Seriously! I am trying to understand it. Genuinely.

Okay, if it's an honest question I will give an honest answer, but this is only my opinion. We Brits live cheek by jowl, we're a small and rather crowded island. There is a certain mentality that is bred into small island dwellers - they put a higher premium on consideration for others than they do for what Americans call "freedom". We have a different view of freedom here, and a lot of it is to do with feeling protected and knowing that if you have to obey the laws then someone or something is going to ensure that your neighbours observe it too.

I haven't spoken to a single Briton who has a problem with being filmed by CCTV. And I don't know many who believe this is the thin end of the wedge and eventually we will have cameras in our homes or any other of the outlandish predictions. While we have cameras on the streets it makes sense to use them. Note the policeman in Gloucester was referring to a criminal, not a member of the public. This is someone with a criminal record, known to the local police, perhaps on parole and suspected of breaking his parole conditions etc etc. Not Ms Cicero headed down the street to get a McDonalds with her two kids. Am I bothered that the police have some people under surveillance? Nope. They could watch me for years and not have anything on me - and if they did it would be tough luck on me for breaking the law.

I know how frustrated the police get, when they know someone is responsible for a one person crime wave but they don't have enough to convict. They are using tools already in place to try to redress this - surely better than fitting up a usual suspect for a random crime, knowing that he was at least responsible for others they didn't get him for.

And speakers identifying people breaking the law? I'm all for it! I would have personally hidden in a rubbish bin on the pedestrian-only New Walk and shouted at the cyclists with a megaphone if I could - it was a steep hill and the freewheeling bikes caused so many near-misses (and accidents apparently, I just never witnessed one). And littering... well let's put it this way, if I was a 6 foot 2 imposing bloke I would never suffer to see anyone drop litter in front of me. It's disgusting and anti-social and I'm all for people being reminded of that.

We are a stubborn race. If there's something we're not happy with we complain in big enough numbers for it to be changed. It generally works. The reason the bin monitoring didn't go ahead was public disapproval. When is enough? I don't know yet, but if we get there you'll hear about it.

Probably didn't help any, but that's my two penn'orth.