Carter: America tortures

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

2) I think you already know the answer to it.

Actually, I don't. What do you think it is?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Actually, I don't. What do you think it is?

Its because we need popular support and are expected to act justified and they don't. It would be like comparing a community known buisness owner who is in debt and a homeless man with no family in debt. The business man will not go to the extremes as the homeless man because he has much more to lose if caught while the homeless man probably doesn't have much if anything to lose, making him much more likely to go to dangerous extremes for the money.

If the United States starts torturing innocent people (*stands in front of Gitmo*) and we are found out, our support will plummet and people will very quickly turn against us while no one supports Al Qaeda so it doesn't matter what they do, everyone will still hate them.

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

If the United States starts torturing innocent people (*stands in front of Gitmo*) and we are found out, our support will plummet and people will very quickly turn against us while no one supports Al Qaeda so it doesn't matter what they do, everyone will still hate them.

If the goal in all of this is to "win the war on terror" (essentially a war on a mindset, a fight against an idea), wouldn't it stand to reason that we would want to appear in a light that would sway those on the middle ground to support our goals, to change their minds and move them away from extremist groups? Would we really be able to do this if populations in the countries we occupy/have bases/have conflicts in knew we were beating people for information? While "win any way possible" logic says they should, since everyone but the enemy would obviously want us to win the war by any means possible to alleviate their suffering, I really don't think "Torturing in Support of Democracy" has a ring to it that will instill pride and gain the support of people in middle eastern nations. Knowing a knock could come at your door and you might be swept off to some camp and waterboarded for months while your family thinks you're dead thanks to misinformation is not going to be well received. Those actions are associated with oppressive, feared dictators, not democratic peace keepers.

...and torture will not remain secret if used, just as it has not in this war so far, nor in any other war. The worst atrocities committed against human beings, the war crimes the US stands against and actively wants to stop, have always managed to come to light at some point. Want to keep it all a secret? Kill your captors, including the innocent ones that didn't have the information you were looking for.

If the reason to torture is to support the war, to end it faster, and that the ends justify the means, then we really need to think ahead to what the supposed final goal of this set of conflicts is: to end terrorism and support democracy. If we're going to use force to do this, then we need to do it right. Just as our military has evolved to fight these new battles against people that are not members of any army, it absolutely must evolve further to look to the long term consequences of its actions, how those actions are received by the people they effect, and what the response will be.

You can torture for information you think might save a life, but no one should be surprised when the ranks of terrorists/anti-US groups swell when the news spreads that the coming liberators will beat to within an inch of your life to get at information if they think you have it.