Oil jumps above $100 on refinery outage

[TheMercenary]

It is probably time for some higher gas prices, it will go well with the coming inflation, recession, and foreclosure crisis. It may give those idiots in Congress the stimulus to go after the issues and get something done.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It may give those idiots in Congress the stimulus to go after the issues and get something done.

Solution does not resided in Congress. Problems such as corporate welfare have only made the problem worse. Technology developed in GM in the 1970s, found standard in foreign models in the 1990s; and GM still could not install it in the 2000s? Engines in SUVs using 1960 technology.

Solutions are found only in one fundamental principle - do more work with less energy. Nothing in Congress can fix the problem. Although some Federal regulations did liberate car guys, how many more innovations must be stifled for 10 and 20 years by bean counters? Those are lessons from history.

Those who learn from history would than complain about ethanol - corporate welfare that solves nothing.

Let's see. The US government gave these automakers $100million to develop a hybrid. 12 years later - still no hybrid? Patriotic Americans (with Japanese citizenship) had to do it? I don't see the problem identified and blamed.

An F-150 pickup that could weight less than a Camry has lower gas mileage? Yes. They are not selling to people who meet the definition of patriotic Americans. American patriot wants, works for, and contributes to innovation. We need more work from less energy. We don't need cars that burn 10 gallons of gas while using less than 2 gallons in productive work. Vehicles are that inefficient. What will Congressman do? Pass more laws to protect GM - an anti-American auto company?

From history, gasoline had to rise to $5 per gallon before automakers conceded - started using pre-WWII technologies such as fuel injection - in cars. Costs had to increases that high before bean counters would finally concede that a decades obsolete technology - a carburetor - could finally be replaced.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

GM - an anti-American auto company

Now that right there is some funny shit.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Now that right there is some funny shit.

One who may be so anti-American and so anti-free market as to promote "Buy American"? GM cars were so pathetic as to cost more to build than Mercedes. Required more labor. Required two extra pistons and all those other expensive parts to do same as good American cars (ie Toyota). Those are facts with numbers. TheMercenary's proof - an intelligent response? Nothing. He uses mockery to prove his point. Clearly he is not an immigrant.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

One who may be so anti-American and so anti-free market as to promote "Buy American"? GM cars were so pathetic as to cost more to build than Mercedes. Required more labor. Required two extra pistons and all those other expensive parts to do same as good American cars (ie Toyota). Those are facts with numbers.

And why is that Idiot? because the US workers unions made it so. The industry was fucked by the unions, hence they outsourced. Pensions, insurance, required union work conditions have all contributed.

[tw]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

And why is that Idiot? because the US workers unions made it so. The industry was fucked by the unions, hence they outsourced. Pensions, insurance, required union work conditions have all contributed.

More hate? So union workers created all that stifled innovation for 30 years in GM? Did you ever work in a GM plant? I did. How I could get work accomplished? I found a union worker who took the proper attitude (completely with an arm gesture). Problem solved immediately.

Another example: a pipe fitter probably forgot to tighten a fitting. Materials flowed through that pipe until cooling finally created a leak. The room filled with a dangerous gas. Another pipe fitter held his breath, ran in, cut off the flow, and retreated safely. (I asked him if he was crazy.)

Somehow I got called into a meeting by the plant manager. She had maybe 50 people in the room to discuss the event. Obvious from irrelevant questions was that neither she nor her assistants knew even what the material was used for - how the work gets done. She could not ask a single useful question. But a most damning observation? Neither pipe fitter was there. Nobody who knew what happened was present. No problem. She was an MBA. She conducted a meeting. Therefore she had everything under control.

So many people discussing what none knew anything about? Clearly another example of unions destroying America? Yes, where contempt replaces logic.

TheMercenary, how many more will your hate attack? When an adversarial union exists, then look years (decades) earlier for an adversarial management that too often comes from business schools, has no idea how the work gets done, and who must hire more subordinates.

Legacy costs. GM cars cost more due to legacy costs? Reality: the day that union worker requires, those pension funds should be fully funded. But 1990s GM cars had so many more pistons (were so anti-America) that GM management stopped funding those pension funds. Now GM, et al owe $7 billion to the pension funds. GM blames legacy costs. What anti-Americans let GM forget - they stopped funding those pension funds so claim profits in the 1990s. But again, this is blamed completely on the unions - according to TheMercenary. Hate trumps facts?

How was 1981 Ford saved from bankruptcy? First the MBA was removed - Henry Ford. Then Ford eliminated management. 48 layers of management were reduced to 5. No union workers had to be eliminated. Instead, Ford eliminated the only reason for their problems - management. So Ford Motor went from near bankruptcy to record profits between 1981 and 1990.

When unions get blamed as TheMercenary posts, well, the accuser is better replaced by an immigrant – to make a better America.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by tw

When unions get blamed as TheMercenary posts, well, the accuser is better replaced by an immigrant – to make a better America.

May you get what you wish for and may it bankrupt you Idiot.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by tw

So union workers created all that stifled innovation for 30 years in GM?

Despite tw's crazy rants about pre-WWII fuel injection technology being so wonderful, he's right on the money about the unions and their relationship with the manufacturers.

The car company would come to the bargaining table and say, we'll give you a little bit now, but we'll take care of you when you retire. But when the contract was signed, they let the promises become the problem of the management that followed them, when they retired with millions in cash and stock options.

Most of the work rules, on which the companies had plenty of input and agreed to, are enforcement of safety procedures. Many of them are just following federal law that would be ignored without the unions. Even with them, too many people die or are disabled by unsafe work practices in pursuit of the almighty buck.

Chinese workers are cheap and they are dieing by the thousands, to keep walmart rolling in cash.