SCOTUS Grants Guantanamo Prisoners Habeas Corpus

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by flaja

Did we the people include women people who could not vote in America until 1920? Or did this country routinely fine, jail and execute women without giving them their due process rights? Women had no role in preparing the Constitution and thus could not be construed as being any part of “We the People”, but women still had the same legal due process rights that citizens of the United States enjoyed.

So what makes you so certain that the Persons to which the 5th Amendment is applicable is limited to U.S. citizens?

It is obvious things have morphed since the beginning, no doubt. The situation was the same for blacks and American Indians. But the Constitution was never intended to address people not in the US.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

It is obvious things have morphed since the beginning, no doubt. The situation was the same for blacks and American Indians. But the Constitution was never intended to address people not in the US.

Then why does the Constitution grant Congress the power "To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations"?

If Congress can make laws that are applicable to non-U.S. citizens, how can we not grant U.S. legal due process to these non-U.S. citizens?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by flaja

Then why does the Constitution grant Congress the power "To define and punish Piracies and Felonies committed on the high Seas, and Offenses against the Law of Nations"?

If Congress can make laws that are applicable to non-U.S. citizens, how can we not grant U.S. legal due process to these non-U.S. citizens?

Because they are not US Citizens. Quite simple.

[Aliantha]

If Congress can make laws that are applicable to non-U.S. citizens, how can we not grant U.S. legal due process to these non-U.S. citizens?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Because they are not US Citizens. Quite simple.

Do you see the double standard here Merc? If your country (any country, not just the US) makes laws concerning non citizens, then there must be some recourse for those non-citizens. It's ok to say that people must live by the law of the land etc, but if there's two sets of laws, that seems a little bit unbalanced and unstable.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Aliantha

Do you see the double standard here Merc? If your country (any country, not just the US) makes laws concerning non citizens, then there must be some recourse for those non-citizens. It's ok to say that people must live by the law of the land etc, but if there's two sets of laws, that seems a little bit unbalanced and unstable.

I just do not agree, every country in the world has two sets of laws for citizens and non-citizens. Why should the US be different. We have allowed people to take advantage of the loop holes in our society for to long. IMHO, since 9/11 all that was changed and the gloves are off, permanently. It is the price of doing business in this ever changing world. If we do not adapt to the ever increasing threats we shall perish.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

I just do not agree, every country in the world has two sets of laws for citizens and non-citizens.

Your documentation for this claim is what?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by flaja

Your documentation for this claim is what?

Name those that do not. A very simple search on google will yield you thousands of searches.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Because they are not US Citizens. Quite simple.

You are the most obtuse person that I have encountered on the net in quite a while. The 5th Amendment says person, it does not say citizen. You have yet to present anything other than your own opinion as evidence that the Constitution limits legal due process to citizens.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by flaja

You are the most obtuse person that I have encountered on the net in quite a while. The 5th Amendment says person, it does not say citizen. You have yet to present anything other than your own opinion as evidence that the Constitution limits legal due process to citizens.

Most certainly I did. It is in black and white post #62. It is written on paper on the Constitution itself:


"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

No where does it say we the people of the United States establish this Constitution for all people of the world under any conditon.

[flaja]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Most certainly I did. It is in black and white post #62. It is written on paper on the Constitution itself:


"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

No where does it say we the people of the United States establish this Constitution for all people of the world under any conditon.

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by flaja

Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law…

The Constitution is for US citizens alone.

"We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America."

No where does it say we the people of the United States establish this Constitution for all people of the world under any conditon.