Disrespecting Modernity

[limey]

Isn't a lot of today's technology about taking us away from the here and now? Listening to music on headphones while out on a run, talking on the phone when ot walking on holiday? Don't get me wrong - listening to music or chatting on the phone are great, but the trend is toward multitasking, distracting yourself from what you're doing. I'm not saying we should go back to the grow your own, kill your own lifestyle but perhaps a little more focus on now, a little more awareness of the present, wouldn't be a bad thing?

[Griff]

Originally Posted by limey

Isn't a lot of today's technology about taking us away from the here and now?

Very true. We do have a choice though. People have to figure out what's going to work for them. My main thought is that our baseline standard of life is so high we can lose sight of how good we have it. I couldn't be as connected as UT, that is too much input for me. My choices are more in line with regularjoe's. I believe we should choose carefully, but letting others choose for themselves is a value too.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Good point, how many actually choose, as opposed to keeping up with the Joneses, going along with the crowd? Competing with peers to have the latest, newest, biggest, unaware of the social costs.

Maybe the need for more and more distraction, is actually avoiding thinking.

[Griff]

Sometimes it is really hard to quiet the monkey mind so we drown it.

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. - Rush

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Griff

If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice. - Rush

Behind the finer feelings, the civilized veneer, the heart of a lonely hunter guards a dangerous frontier. - Rush

To me, the question is whether we are living in a way that is compatible with our evolutionarily aquired psychological characteristics, i.e. our programming. Because that stuff isn't going to change.

Also, I feel that the idea of "modernity" is a farce, in that every person who ever lived was living in the most modern era up to that point.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Also, I feel that the idea of "modernity" is a farce, in that every person who ever lived was living in the most modern era up to that point.

That's true, but I can't think of a period when the world changed so much in one lifetime.

[lookout123]

...and then God said, "Let there be light"...

What? we haven't had a good creationism thread in awhile.

[Phage0070]

Originally Posted by Flint

To me, the question is whether we are living in a way that is compatible with our evolutionarily aquired psychological characteristics, i.e. our programming. Because that stuff isn't going to change.

Actually, I have to disagree on this point. One of the hallmarks of sentience is the ability to behave and react in a way not completely governed by evolutionary characteristics. Our intelligence in turn shapes our "programming" as we continue through life. Intelligence allows us to act against our natural instincts and get into a car; it would be lunacy to act in a way "compatible with our evolutionarily aquired psychological characteristics" and flee under a bush to gnaw on a twig or something.

Evolutionary programming changes over time (that is kinda the point), so we should instead make sure that our society is created in a manner beneficial to us in the evolutionary long run. Reward those who create progress, reward those who protect and aid us, and we can expect that 400 years from now those qualities will be in great supply.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Flint

To me, the question is whether we are living in a way that is compatible with our evolutionarily aquired psychological characteristics, i.e. our programming. Because that stuff isn't going to change.

Originally Posted by Phage0070

Actually, I have to disagree on this point. One of the hallmarks of sentience is the ability to behave and react in a way not completely governed by evolutionary characteristics. Our intelligence in turn shapes our "programming" as we continue through life. Intelligence allows us to act against our natural instincts and get into a car; it would be lunacy to act in a way "compatible with our evolutionarily aquired psychological characteristics" and flee under a bush to gnaw on a twig or something.

Evolutionary programming changes over time (that is kinda the point), so we should instead make sure that our society is created in a manner beneficial to us in the evolutionary long run. Reward those who create progress, reward those who protect and aid us, and we can expect that 400 years from now those qualities will be in great supply.

Our evolutionary "programming" has rewarded us with the gift of being highly curious and adaptable; we quickly assimilate new information and thrive under previously unimaginable conditions. This doesn't constiture a departure from our evolutionary traits, rather it is a confirmation of exactly what they are--how we came to be so successful.

We are the same creature, the same design, in our modern culture, as what we have been for longer than it is possible for us to imagine. The lunacy is in assuming that our ancestors were frightened, stupid apes--and this is a dangerous lunacy, because it attributes to us a superiority that we haven't demonstrated and don't deserve.

Learning to speak Portugese, or play the Cello, or juggle chainsaws while riding a unicycle doesn't mean a person has "re-programmed" themself in an evolutionary sense; it means there are more culturally acquired, learned abilities that one has the opportunity to be exposed to.

Verbal, then written, and now electronic exchange of information has accumulated for us a massive stockpile of information that we now have access to, and are exposed to from birth. We aren't "genetically" superior to a primitive hunter gatherer just because he's never seen a TV before.

Evolutionary programming changes over time...

But it doesn't change over a lifetime, or a hundred lifetimes. Evolution s l o w l y grinds out changes over an unimaginably extended period of time.

And unfortunately, as successful as the process of natural selection has been in creating us, we no longer live under a set of circumstances where we are "evolving" towards loftier ambitions and more noble traits. Have you seen the movie Idiocracy?

[Phage0070]

Originally Posted by limey

I'm not saying we should go back to the grow your own, kill your own lifestyle but perhaps a little more focus on now, a little more awareness of the present, wouldn't be a bad thing?

That is an excellent argument against disrespecting modernity. As modern people we have more awareness of the present than ever before in history; I can keep tabs on my aunt in Washington state from South Carolina without waiting 6 months for a letter to *perhaps* come through. People accuse society of being "out of touch" with their common man, when they don't realise that not long ago you would have had to *walk* a few miles between farms just to talk!

If anything we could use people to be more oriented toward progress. Stop yammering about how much you love looking at trees, and find a way to fertilize bauxite-laden rain forest soil so people can farm it without slash and burn methods. Stop taking for granted technology, stop being comfortable with our current progress, and make things better!

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Phage0070

snip~ not long ago you would have had to *walk* a few miles between farms just to talk!~snip

Now we blow by the neighbors farm at 50mph, windows up, climate control on, 250 watt sound system blocking ambient bird chirps and squirrel chatter, yammering on the phone with someone we saw 5 minutes ago or will see in 5 minutes, maybe noticing whether the neighbors car is in the yard.

[limey]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Now we blow by the neighbors farm at 50mph, windows up, climate control on, 250 watt sound system blocking ambient bird chirps and squirrel chatter, yammering on the phone with someone we saw 5 minutes ago or will see in 5 minutes, maybe noticing whether the neighbors car is in the yard.

That is what I mean be focussing on the here and now. I'm all in favour of the many advantages of new technology (I can do the fortnightly grocery shop for my mum even though I live 300 miles from her thanks to online supermarket shopping with delivery services), but when technology is used to remove you from where you are (i.e. listening to you ipod when out for a walk in the country) then I think it is worth asking the question "Why do I want to be removed from here?" ... I know multi-tasking is supposed to be where it's at, but sometimes it's good to do just the one thing, with all your attention. JMHO etc etc

[xoxoxoBruce]

Especially if that one thing you're doing, is paying attention to what's happening around you.