Rumors and Truth

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by smoothmoniker

Horshit.

IIRC, Smooth is a college teacher.

So am I (admittedly, in a different country).

I second his opinion.

A significant proportion of these kids don't have a bloody clue. Many more are totally apathetic. Those that are into politics are excitedly gobbling up whatever party line they first got a taste for. A very small number are actually intelligent, informed, and thoughtful.

[Aliantha]

That's true Zen, but on the other hand (the one I think classic was getting at) is there are a hell of a lot of people out there who don't even have any basic intelligence or information on which to base their vote. I've been astounded at the statements some of the people I know have made about politicians and politics, and interestingly, the ones who make the most astounding statements are the ones with the least education.

I'm not saying this is the case for all, but I'd lay money on better educated people making more informed decisions...whether they've been informed with good or bad information is beside the point.

[DanaC]

Originally Posted by classicman

yes, no - you see there are two questions there. Although, and I'll say it again to be clear, I do not view registering college students the same as registering people living on the street or in a shelter.

*Blinks*

Have you any idea how many returning soldiers are living rough, on the streets of America's cities? One estimate I heard recently said about 150,000. Are you aware that entire families are sometimes homeless, with mum and the youngest living in lodgings and dad and older brother in whatever shelter they can find? How many of the homeless are just people who've somehow disappeared off the radar, slipped through the cracks and become non-people?

So there's a higher proportion of the homeless population suffering various forms of mental illness and drug/alcohol dependency than amongst the housed...at what point does mental illness render you unfit to vote? Depression? Suicidal tendencies? Taking nicks out of your arm with a razor blade of a nighttime? Bad dreams and panic attacks? None of these are reserved for those without a roof.

You seem morally appalled that these people might be swayed for the price of a hot meal; yet the Republican candidate stands in a town hall and says "I'll give you a $5,000 dollar, refundable tax credit..."


*shakes head* I'm going to step out of this discussion I think, before I fall out with people unnecessarily.

[Sundae]

Wow.
Sounds like adhereance to the Constitution, with all its byzantine twists and turns about God in schools and freedom of the press etc doesn't really apply when it comes to universal sufferage. Then again, the Declaration of Independence was written by slave owners, so I suppose it's not really worth the paper it's written on.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, except those that are black or live in trash cans, but all other men are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. --That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, although not all of the governed should be allowed to vote.

[glatt]

classicman, I'm at a loss for words.

[ZenGum]

Actually, I think Dana and Sundae cover it best.

[classicman]

1) I am NOT trying to stop anyone from voting - I really think you are all missing what I am trying to say. Everyone should has the right to vote EVERY-FUCKING-ONE. (except felons and such)
That part clear? I hope so.

2) Everyone should vote EVERY-FUCKING-ONE.

What I do not think is right nor fair or just is people and/or organizations with political agendas, funded by MY TAX DOLLARS, going out onto the street and registering any & everyone they can find, dig up or wake up just to support their political views and to skew election results. No I do not believe in that - that is all.

[Pico and ME]

Classic...organizations like Acorn offer assistance to people who wouldn't ordinarily be able to perform the task themselves. Your reaction to this seems to be a direct result of the skewed reporting on Acorns true function. Try reading some articles that actually show a more favorable light on Acorn and see what you think.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by DanaC

*Blinks*
You seem morally appalled that these people might be swayed for the price of a hot meal; yet the Republican candidate stands in a town hall and says "I'll give you a $5,000 dollar, refundable tax credit..."
*shakes head* I'm going to step out of this discussion I think, before I fall out with people unnecessarily.

I am not morally appalled at them at all. PLEASE do not put words in my mouth. The simple fact that their vote WILL be swayed as YOU put it is another reason these organizations should not use our tax dollars for their political agendas, whether I agree with them or not.

I am NOT attacking the people nor their fortunes or lack thereof in life.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

Classic...organizations like Acorn offer assistance to people who wouldn't ordinarily be able to perform the task themselves. Your reaction to this seems to be a direct result of the skewed reporting on Acorns true function. Try reading some articles that actually show a more favorable light on Acorn and see what you think.

I've read plenty, thanks. I simply disagree with these organizations using my tax dollars to propagate their agenda. There should be a more unbiased nonpartisan way.

[classicman]

SG - Please do NOT bring race into this, in fact you are completely wrong about what I am saying and what I believe.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Bullitt

Unfortunately.... rag on me all you want but I think a short quiz at the polls before you cast your vote should be required. So you know, people at least know where Iraq is, etc. before helping to decide who is the next prez.

How is this any different? You folks are unreal.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by classicman

SG - Please do NOT bring race into this, in fact you are completely wrong about what I am saying and what I believe.

I apologise if it appeared the comment about blacks was aimed at you. I was in fact referring to the fact that the Founding Fathers owned slaves.

[classicman]

No prob - Pigpile is a fun game to play ... except when you are the wabbit.

[Undertoad]

Have you any idea how many returning soldiers are living rough, on the streets of America's cities? One estimate I heard recently said about 150,000.

Higher than that! Not just returning soldiers but vets of all wars. It's appalling, but these guys have the same mental illness and/or substance abuse rates that most homeless suffer from.

It could be that historically, otherwise unemployable people went into the military, though that's not as true as it once was.