Who does homosexuality hurt?

[Sundae]

Ahhhhh, it all comes down to money in the end, Merc?
"If you're gonna be a mary-queen you'll not get a penny out of me!"?
Fair enough. If a child denies the sexual preference they were born with just to get financial, material, or emotional support from their parents then they deserve eachother.

Well - perhaps not the emotional side of things, but it does make them kinda needy. Obviously from having such overbearing parents.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Ahhhhh, it all comes down to money in the end, Merc?
"If you're gonna be a mary-queen you'll not get a penny out of me!"?
Fair enough. If a child denies the sexual preference they were born with just to get financial, material, or emotional support from their parents then they deserve eachother.

Well - perhaps not the emotional side of things, but it does make them kinda needy. Obviously from having such overbearing parents.

Why should parents support the life style of another adult that they don't support? Because they are your spawn? I think not. What overbearing parents? A bit of an assumption on your part don't you think?

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why should parents support the life style of another adult that they don't support? Because they are your spawn? I think not. What overbearing parents? A bit of an assumption on your part don't you think?

Actually yes and yes and yes. They do owe it to the child to give them the support they need in order to succeed (finacial, emotional, everything) even if they don't agree with the child's personal life-style. The parent chose to have the child, their responsibility to the child doesn't end, ever. Even if its a druggie whore, they have the responsibility to try and help them, pay for rehab ect.
To me, you're comments make you sound like its all about "ME" from the parents side. I'm sorry but the parent chose the relationship, the child did not.
This isn't just for the adult-child's benefit, a good relationship with your child should be important, and instead of ostracizing them
A: you have more chance of influencing them to make good decisions
B: you get the benefit of a loving respectful relationship
C: if they're successful, they'll pass along the good fortune because you were a part of them gaining that success.

BTW: no when I hurt my parents' feelings it does bother me. I try to minimize damage, which means I hide alot. BUT I'm not going to marry the person they want me to (at 18 nonetheless!), and I'm not going to go to church. Those are my choices to make, not theirs, and although doing so would make them happy, it would make me very very extremely unhappy. Even though I tell them this (and its proven, I've done it "their way" in the past, I got suicidal) they deny that thats possible. So I love my parents, I know they want the best for me, but they don't know what is best for me. I'm not saying that I know either, but I'm a lot more aware than they are.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

The parent chose to have the child, their responsibility to the child doesn't end, ever. Even if its a druggie whore, they have the responsibility to try and help them, pay for rehab ect.

Balderdash... You raise the kid as best you can, teach them right from wrong as you know it, do your best to prepare them for life, but as adults they have to make there own way it the world. Any further aid is voluntary, not obligation.

Baby-->child-->adult, that's it, no parasites.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

The parent chose to have the child, their responsibility to the child doesn't end, ever. Even if its a druggie whore, they have the responsibility to try and help them, pay for rehab ect.

Forever? I do not think so. Since when? OMG is this really what the next generation believes? I totally completely and wholeheartedly disagree. The parent has a responsibility to care for and give their child the best they can until adulthood. After that, it is pure choice, not a requirement. Geez, this is like a scene out of Stepbrothers.

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

To me, you're comments make you sound like its all about "ME" from the parents side. I'm sorry but the parent chose the relationship, the child did not.
This isn't just for the adult-child's benefit, a good relationship with your child should be important, and instead of ostracizing them
A: you have more chance of influencing them to make good decisions
B: you get the benefit of a loving respectful relationship
C: if they're successful, they'll pass along the good fortune because you were a part of them gaining that success.

No, Its all about YOU - obviously. Whew?!?

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

BTW: no when I hurt my parents' feelings it does bother me. I try to minimize damage, which means I hide alot.

Do you think that is the best course of action?> Do you think that is the mature adult way of handling a situation? By deception and dishonesty?

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

~but they don't know what is best for me. I'm not saying that I know either, but I'm a lot more aware than they are.

Hopefully their years of experience have taught them more than you over your limited time on the planet. If not, then perhaps you are right. However, I would conclude that to be the exception, not the rule.


Where do you think discipline and/or sacrifice come into this equation? You (the child) said that you were part of their success. If so, how did you contribute?

[jinx]

Originally Posted by classicman

Do you think that is the mature adult way of handling a situation? By deception and dishonesty?

Are you serious?
Let's hear how you would handle the situation, Mr. Mature and Honest, mmkay?

[xoxoxoBruce]

First, define the "situation".

[jinx]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

First, define the "situation".

The situation as I understand Merc and Classic to be describing it is; someone who you depend on for emotional or financial support doesn't approve of your lifestyle or something you do.

My point, Jinx, was that perhaps her parents don't fully know or understand her because they don't completely know HER. If she is keeping who she is from them, how are they supposed to be able to help and guide her?

And my question was how would you personally handle the situation. You seemed to have a problem with MTP's course of "dishonesty". So would you be honest and possibly lose financial support, would you try to hide your activities, or would you be a good but miserable dog? You. Personally.

[Bullitt]

Originally Posted by classicman

Forever? I do not think so. Since when? OMG is this really what the next generation believes? I totally completely and wholeheartedly disagree. The parent has a responsibility to care for and give their child the best they can until adulthood. After that, it is pure choice, not a requirement. Geez, this is like a scene out of Stepbrothers.

Don't worry not all of us. My parents brought me up with lessons on personal responsibility, accountability for your actions, and acceptance of the results for said actions. To expect someone else to take care of you is naive at best when you are fully capable of supporting yourself. All of my friends are the same way as I am in this regard. My dad tells me even now to "be the person you want to become", take responsibility for your own life and shape it into whatever you want it to be. Never expect anything from anyone, esp. those who don't owe you anything. Appreciate what you have been given, and strive to earn your rewards in life instead of waiting for handouts.

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

I know they want the best for me, but they don't know what is best for me. I'm not saying that I know either, but I'm a lot more aware than they are.

I laugh when I hear kids say this now, because I used to be the same way until I grew up and realized hey, maybe they DO know a thing or two about life, children, etc. because *NEWS FLASH* they raised you from a pup and have watched you grow and change and learn. They've seen you try, fail, and succeed and to deny them the position that they've earned through blood, sweat, and tears to be in with you today is selfish, ignorant, and disrespectful. The whole point of parenting is to teach the child how to be self sufficient in the world and then set them free to determine the course of their own life. That is their role and anything more is charity that you shouldn't expect from anyone. Your parents are not there to be your wheelchair once you've learned how to stand on your own two feet. The world owes you nothing and has no responsibility to care for your every need, esp. when you've become and adult. Your parents included.

What you are aware of is your own mindset and your own feelings. Your parents cannot know these things, and thus better understand you, unless you TELL them and don't repress anything. Suppressing your feelings and thoughts leads to resentment because the only way to solve a problem is to get down and dirty and SOLVE it.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

I'm not going to marry the person they want me to (at 18 nonetheless!)


and its proven, I've done it "their way" in the past, I got suicidal

Its funny: all ya'll who decided to rag on me for sayin my parents do not always know whats best for me, decided to overlook these two statements completely. So I'll say it again, and dumb it down for ya.
My parents wanted me to GET MARRIED AT 18! They think me getting a college degree is probably a waste of time. They believe my ex-boyfriend "owns a piece of my soul" because we had sex. That although I was terribly unhappy with him, and with him mainly because he was the first guy to ever pay attention to me, THAT I SHOULD STILL MARRY HIM AT 18! That I should get a SECOND job, and support HIM through school.

I spent FOUR YEARS on anti-depressants, not able to look up from my feet, hiding in my closet or a book. I was suicidal, and took pain-killers recreational. When I wasn't doing these things, I was goin to church or youth group, or praying to God. Trying to be a good Christian, and not understanding why my heart was still devoid, when I had all the "faith" I could muster. When I begged my parents; no I did not "throw a fit," I wrote out all of my arguments, asked them to sit down with me and tried to discuss the issue with them, it ended in literal begging, I begged them to let me stop youth group. I was endlessly harassed at it, not just by other kids, by the youth minister herself. They knew this, they believed it. They made me keep going even though 9 out of 10 times I came home in a complete wreck. Its hard now, not to tear up and talk about it. That was 5 or so years ago.

A couple of years ago, my mom actually told me: "I don't really believe you were ever depressed." That makes sense, since 3 separate doctors and a family counselor all believed it. My thoughts of suicide probably meant nothing either.

Those are a couple of examples, I don't feel like giving anymore, those are personal enough. So while, my parents have years of experience that makes their advise very valuable. They don't know what is best for me.

[Bullitt]

I'm sorry to hear about all that MTP. Some people just don't quite get what it means to "walk in someone else's shoes". Meaning that they should have taken a step back and thought about what they were asking and forcing you to do from your POV. There's no such thing as a perfect parent, but I'm willing to guess that they do honestly have your best interest in mind. Obviously that doesn't always come through the way you would think, esp. given what sounds like fundamentalist Christian views (Pentecostal by chance?). But in their minds they are pushing you to do what they see as best for you according to their worldview, ya know? In this case, their views are asking too much of you, they didn't understand what you were going through, and it created a rift. I hope you can mend things with your parents, there's no replacement for that strong family bond. And I hope that they can see things from your perspective and try to respect your wishes, even if they disagree. Be careful not to throw the baby out with the bathwater in dealing with them though. Even though they may have some skewed expectations of you esp. regarding your faith, that doesn't automatically make their combined knowledge about life null and void (unless you ask RKZ).

We can only go by what we see posted on the board. We don't all necessarily know your personal background and life story, just whatever tidbits you happen to post. Which can lead to people seemingly coming off as jerks in response to your comments, when that's not necessarily the case or their intention.

[xoxoxoBruce]

We've still only heard one side.

[Cicero]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

Its funny: all ya'll who decided to rag on me for sayin my parents do not always know whats best for me, decided to overlook these two statements completely. So I'll say it again, and dumb it down for ya.
My parents wanted me to GET MARRIED AT 18! They think me getting a college degree is probably a waste of time. They believe my ex-boyfriend "owns a piece of my soul" because we had sex. That although I was terribly unhappy with him, and with him mainly because he was the first guy to ever pay attention to me, THAT I SHOULD STILL MARRY HIM AT 18! That I should get a SECOND job, and support HIM through school.

I spent FOUR YEARS on anti-depressants, not able to look up from my feet, hiding in my closet or a book. I was suicidal, and took pain-killers recreational. When I wasn't doing these things, I was goin to church or youth group, or praying to God. Trying to be a good Christian, and not understanding why my heart was still devoid, when I had all the "faith" I could muster. When I begged my parents; no I did not "throw a fit," I wrote out all of my arguments, asked them to sit down with me and tried to discuss the issue with them, it ended in literal begging, I begged them to let me stop youth group. I was endlessly harassed at it, not just by other kids, by the youth minister herself. They knew this, they believed it. They made me keep going even though 9 out of 10 times I came home in a complete wreck. Its hard now, not to tear up and talk about it. That was 5 or so years ago.

A couple of years ago, my mom actually told me: "I don't really believe you were ever depressed." That makes sense, since 3 separate doctors and a family counselor all believed it. My thoughts of suicide probably meant nothing either.

Those are a couple of examples, I don't feel like giving anymore, those are personal enough. So while, my parents have years of experience that makes their advise very valuable. They don't know what is best for me.

Sounds abusive. The cellar may be wrong on this one. This sounds like the patriarchs are getting the upper hand on a young girl. Sorry. Nuh uh.


The day I quit listening to my parents was the best of my life. Parents can be wrong. Dead wrong.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

Actually yes and yes and yes. They do owe it to the child to give them the support they need in order to succeed (finacial, emotional, everything) even if they don't agree with the child's personal life-style. The parent chose to have the child, their responsibility to the child doesn't end, ever. Even if its a druggie whore, they have the responsibility to try and help them, pay for rehab ect.

True, until the age of 18. After that it is about personal choices that you make from there on out. I do not feel that as a parent I have a responsibility to continually keep coming back and bailing you out. I will attempt to help an adult-child only for so long before the individual will have to take total responsibility for the choices that they make as adults. Even if they are bad choices. If you are going to become a "a druggie whore", then that is on you. Don't come to me looking for help over and over. It will not be there and to expect it to be there is pure fantasy.

To me, you're comments make you sound like its all about "ME" from the parents side. I'm sorry but the parent chose the relationship, the child did not.

Then you mis-understood. What it is about is a two way relationship with your adult children. But the "responsibility" I may have with one of my children ends with adulthood and when I no longer have a say in their life and what they do. The child gets 100% benefit to adulthood. After that they will be expected to be responsible for all their actions from that point forward.

This isn't just for the adult-child's benefit, a good relationship with your child should be important,

I would agree, but it is a two way street and that adult-child has responsiblities in that relationship.

and instead of ostracizing them
A: you have more chance of influencing them to make good decisions

Try that with an adult-child and see how well that works out for you. Your role is to make them independent contributing members of society. Not be their best friend and most adults will do whatever they want, regardless of the opinions of the parent.

B: you get the benefit of a loving respectful relationship

Not always, you hope for that but things don't always work out that way. And it is not because you failed as a parent.

C: if they're successful, they'll pass along the good fortune because you were a part of them gaining that success.

Pure fantasy.

BTW: no when I hurt my parents' feelings it does bother me. I try to minimize damage, which means I hide alot. BUT I'm not going to marry the person they want me to (at 18 nonetheless!), and I'm not going to go to church. Those are my choices to make, not theirs, and although doing so would make them happy, it would make me very very extremely unhappy. Even though I tell them this (and its proven, I've done it "their way" in the past, I got suicidal) they deny that thats possible. So I love my parents, I know they want the best for me, but they don't know what is best for me. I'm not saying that I know either, but I'm a lot more aware than they are.

Great. Sounds like you have grown into an adult. But because of your choices, your parents have the right not to continue to support you materially. It does not mean that they don't love you if you make that choice. Only that they may not approve of your lifestyle.

Let's do a what if. Ok, now this is not me so don't get any ideas about what I believe. A hypothetical:

Say your parents are devoutly religious. And they do not belive in sex before marriage and all that stuff. You make an adult decision to move in with your boyfriend and co-habitate. Prior to this they completely supported you while you were in graduate school, sent you all the money you needed to pay rent, pay the bills, food, everything, car, insurance, etc. And a little spending money. You are a full time student. They totally disapprove of your actions and you know it but you don't care because you know what is best for you. Do they have a right to withdraw all support and say, look you have a degree, go get a job and support yourself?