What do you hear when people say freedom?

[xoxoxoBruce]

Originally Posted by Beestie

I never got that line.
So when you have nothing left you are free?

Originally Posted by Aliantha

There is no such thing as freedom. Only levels of obligation.

That's what it means, only when you've nothing left to lose, no level of obligation, are you free.

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

That's what it means, only when you've nothing left to lose, no level of obligation, are you free.

I interpret "nothing left to lose" as having nothing left that someone can take away from you which includes freedom. So to me, the state of having nothing left that can be taken away from me is captivity.

Being left alone to do as I wish without impacting others or being impacted by others is freedom. And that freedom comes with no obligation.

To say that there is no such thing as freedom but only levels of obligation is incomprehensible to me.

[xoxoxoBruce]

No, freedom is having no levels of obligation, and that's only possible when you have no stuff and no relationships... ie nothing left to lose. See?

[Beestie]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, freedom is having no levels of obligation, and that's only possible when you have no stuff and no relationships... ie nothing left to lose. See?

Clarity such as this is a gift. Perfectly, clear now. Outlook adjusted. Thank you.

[JPB]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

No, freedom is having no levels of obligation, and that's only possible when you have no stuff and no relationships... ie nothing left to lose. See?

Your freedom doesn't sound very free to me.
A free person is not allowed to relate to anything?

Freedom is being allowed to do what you want. This is Individual Freedom.
The concept Freedom becomes more interesting once other people enter the picture(i am assuming that all people are considered to be (at least theoretically) equal)
When you say everybody is Free you are talking about something completely different. Namely your individual Freedom insofar as it does not infringe on the individual Freedom of all others within your sphere of influence.

I just realised this is all semantics, if we imagine a scale going from absolute freedom(everything is allowed) to absolute robotdom(everything that isn't forbidden is manditory) then half of the people here would say that the absolute freedom is The One And Only True Freedom(TM) and the other half would say that the golden mean is The One And Only True Freedom(TM).
This division would put the 'freedom does not exist' crowd under category 1.

Oh, pip pip tallyho and whatnot.