Anonymous Mom, No Dads, + 14

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by Sundae Girl

Don't put your reproduction in the hands of doctors then.

So those women who are infertile...too damn bad for you? So...you can't go to a doctor for abortion now?

Mebbe it's a European thing.
Not being as religious, we tend not to have a deal with the soul kinda thing. Which is why stem cell research is not such a big deal over here.

I'm not talking about a soul kind of thing. I'm talking about doctors not having a right to make life decisions for me. If I want 30 kids, and I can pay for the procedure, that's all my doctor needs to know. It's not his right to make a moral judgement on my life. I expect him to tell me that's not a good idea for my body, and explain the physical risks of carrying all those children, but I don't expect him to say "No, I won't do it because I don't think it's good for the planet." or whatever else bullshit reason. It's not his call. He can choose not to treat me, and that's ok, I'll find a doctor who will.

Same can be said for abortion. If a woman went to a doctor for an abortion and he told her no, she can't have one on moral grounds, you'd be having a fit. If she has a right to an abortion, she also has a right to have as many kids as she can.

[Pie]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I expect him to tell me that's not a good idea for my body, and explain the physical risks of carrying all those children...

I can certainly agree with that. The problem here is that the doctor did go ahead and endanger both her life and the lives of her soon-to-be children by implanting 8 embryos in her.

Small family, big family - not the doc's business. 8 embryos at one time - violation of medical ethics!

[classicman]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

I'm talking about doctors not having a right to make life decisions for me.

Many doctors make that decision every day.

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

If a woman went to a doctor for an abortion and he told her no, she can't have one on moral grounds, you'd be having a fit. If she has a right to an abortion, she also has a right to have as many kids as she can.

I wouldn't. But I'm a guy. I have no problem with a doctor making a non life/death decision on his own moral grounds.

But thats just "off the cuff " as you put it.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

So those women who are infertile...too damn bad for you? So...you can't go to a doctor for abortion now?

Crikey! The girl already had 6 kids! SIX!

I'm not talking about a soul kind of thing. I'm talking about doctors not having a right to make life decisions for me. If I want 30 kids, and I can pay for the procedure, that's all my doctor needs to know. It's not his right to make a moral judgement on my life. I expect him to tell me that's not a good idea for my body, and explain the physical risks of carrying all those children, but I don't expect him to say "No, I won't do it because I don't think it's good for the planet." or whatever else bullshit reason. It's not his call. He can choose not to treat me, and that's ok, I'll find a doctor who will.

Same can be said for abortion. If a woman went to a doctor for an abortion and he told her no, she can't have one on moral grounds, you'd be having a fit. If she has a right to an abortion, she also has a right to have as many kids as she can.

I completely disagree. Maybe you can pay for the procedure, but what about later? Can you afford to take care of them? What about the ethics of having SO DAMN MANY KIDS when the world is already seriously overpopulated? I think the good/needs of the many outweighs the wants of the one.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Crikey! The girl already had 6 kids! SIX!
I completely disagree. Maybe you can pay for the procedure, but what about later? Can you afford to take care of them?

That hits the nail on the head. A number if not all of these kids are in NICU. Guess who is paying for thier care? You all.

What about the ethics of having SO DAMN MANY KIDS when the world is already seriously overpopulated? I think the good/needs of the many outweighs the wants of the one.

Free will, you don't get to be involved in that decision. Maybe the government should regulate how many a person can have.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Crikey! The girl already had 6 kids! SIX!

So what? Why does that mean the doctor gets to make her life choices?

I completely disagree. Maybe you can pay for the procedure, but what about later? Can you afford to take care of them? What about the ethics of having SO DAMN MANY KIDS when the world is already seriously overpopulated? I think the good/needs of the many outweighs the wants of the one.

It is *not* for the doctor to make that decision for her, is what I've been saying here.

I'm not saying that I agree with this woman's choice, but I *am* saying it was HER CHOICE, not her doctor's, not her mother's not the government's.

If you think abortion is a "Pro-Choice" issue, then you have to believe this is too, or you are a hypocrite. It is the SAME THING. Reproductive Choice.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

So what? Why does that mean the doctor gets to make her life choices?



It is *not* for the doctor to make that decision for her, is what I've been saying here.

I'm not saying that I agree with this woman's choice, but I *am* saying it was HER CHOICE, not her doctor's, not her mother's not the government's.

If you think abortion is a "Pro-Choice" issue, then you have to believe this is too, or you are a hypocrite. It is the SAME THING. Reproductive Choice.

I am prochoice, and I don't see how being against this is being a hypocrite. It should not have ever been a choice, to carry that many babies. It's ludicrious. It's unnatural. And, it's setting a very dangerous precedent. I think we need to start limiting the number of kids a woman can have. Too many damn people on the planet. Overpopulation, NOT a good thing. Just wait.

[OnyxCougar]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

I am prochoice, and I don't see how being against this is being a hypocrite. It should not have ever been a choice, to carry that many babies.

Are you truly saying you think that a woman's choice regarding her own body and reproduction should be taken away?

It's ludicrious. It's unnatural. And, it's setting a very dangerous precedent. I think we need to start limiting the number of kids a woman can have. (snip)

...Are you kidding me??

Who are you to tell ANYONE else how many children they can have?

NOfuckingBODY.

If you want something done about the world's population, I have three words for you: You go first.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by OnyxCougar

Are you truly saying you think that a woman's choice regarding her own body and reproduction should be taken away?

First of all, having that many embryos implanted should not BE a choice. How is that in any way a reproductive right? In addition, the woman already had SIX KIDS. I think she needs psychological help.

...Are you kidding me??

Nope.

Who are you to tell ANYONE else how many children they can have?

NOfuckingBODY.

If you want something done about the world's population, I have three words for you: You go first.

ftr, I don't have ANY kids. I CHOSE not to have kids. Never wanted them. So OK. Me first.

When it comes to the WORLD POPULATION, and how that effects the quality of life for EVERYONE on this planet, especially in such a consumer-driven society that is fucking up the entire planet, then I have every right to voice my opinion, and in my opinion, it's selfish as HELL to want that many fucking kids. If you want that many kids, have two of your own, and then adopt some. Don't like my opinion, too bad. I'm entitled to it as much as you are entitled to yours.