Bush suddenly an interesting character again

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

The Repubs are doing all they can to keep the Dems from taking the bit in their teeth and running wild. If the Dems succeed in running wild, they will crash, terribly.

You mean like the Republicans did for six years...running wild, rubber stamping everything Bush wanted, conducting virtually no Congressional oversight of the Executive Branch, giving Bush unprecedented 'war powers (warrantless wiretaps of citizens, circumventing US treaty obligations...)w/o a Congressional war powers resolution, politicizing the Dept of Justice, nearly doubling the national debt to over $9 trillion...and then crashing with a thud!

I guess we shall see if the Democrats meet that lofty standard, but people w/o an agenda, by that I mean most Americans, will probably wait beyond one month before making that judgement.

I like the new EOs on government contracting, reviewing detention policies, ensuring lawful interrogations, protecting presidential records. I like the new FOIA memorandum and guidelines. I like the action by the Dept of Interior to put a hold on oil/gas exploration leases in proximity to national parks. I like the SCHIP expansion and the Pay Equity Act. And I like the bold action on the stimulus bil, although I would have preferred it being bolder.

I like that many Americans give Obama and the Democratic Leaders in Congress high approval ratings as well:

I like that even a majority of Republicans are optimistic about Obama

But I know the public has little patience and high expectations.

And I know that Merc doesnt believe in polls.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

Originally Posted by Redux

You mean like the Republicans did for six years...running wild, rubber stamping everything Bush wanted,

Running wild? Not at all: discommoding the Left is hardly "running wild" among wise persons. The "rubber stamping" was bipartisan, I'll have you recall and henceforth keep in mind. Keep your memory good, or I'm likely to embarrass you.

giving Bush unprecedented 'war powers' (warrantless wiretaps of citizens, circumventing US treaty obligations...)w/o a Congressional war powers resolution,

Trying to tell somebody who remembers the Congress did authorize the President to do whatever he had to to win the war, and did authorize the President to prosecute the conflict that matters were otherwise, doesn't say a lot for your understanding of recent history, Redux. See how very badly served hewing to liberal-left opinion leaves you? Congress' resolution did tell GWB "go to it." Nobody responsible or thoughtful (in other words, the left-liberals aren't in the picture) says otherwise.

The war powers are by no means "unprecedented." Compared to war powers during declared states of war, the Bush Admininstration's are somewhat reduced -- check what Roosevelt did with strikers during WW2. Granted, what we saw was a try at assuming war powers without the legal aegis of a Congressional declaration of war, which would have completely smoothed the President's road. Those exact war powers are still held by the Obama Presidency, by the way.

politicizing the Dept of Justice,

Here you seem to be mistaking the Bush Administration for its unfortunate predecessor. Watch your sources -- the Left is full of shitheads who assume their audience either has always had bad memories -- or convenient Memory Holes.

nearly doubling the national debt to over $9 trillion

A fiscal sin that is totally bipartisan, so I say you're throwing a null at me. Besides which, the present Administration is on track to double that nine trillion, no? Bipartisan idiocy, helloooo... no wonder I profess a third party. One that hasn't had a chance to run the deficit up or down.

I guess we shall see if the Democrats meet that lofty standard, but people w/o an agenda, by that I mean most Americans, will probably wait beyond one month before making that judgement.

We are gathering data. These data will be reflected in the judgement we make -- now, or ninety days from now. I'm still quite without reasons to trust the Democratic Party.

The Republicans did things I wanted done, that I really wanted done, which I think will ring down the decades as heroic, wise things. The Democrats haven't managed that in any particular since 1991, and I think the last time I voted for a Democratic candidate might have been well before that year. That's a long time for a national party to be consigned to the "Idiots" box.

Originally Posted by Urbane Guerrilla

Running wild? Not at all: discommoding the Left is hardly "running wild" among wise persons. The "rubber stamping" was bipartisan, I'll have you recall and henceforth keep in mind. Keep your memory good, or I'm likely to embarrass you.

Feel free to embarrass me by posting the roll call votes on the initia lPatriot Act or the Iraq war AUMF. I dont think a majority of Democrats voted for either. You might even add the Bush $1.5 trillion tax cuts that mostly benefited the top wage earners.

Trying to tell somebody who remembers the Congress did authorize the President to do whatever he had to to win the war, and did authorize the President to prosecute the conflict that matters were otherwise, doesn't say a lot for your understanding of recent history, Redux. See how very badly served hewing to liberal-left opinion leaves you? Congress' resolution did tell GWB "go to it." Nobody responsible or thoughtful (in other words, the left-liberals aren't in the picture) says otherwise.

Please read the Authorization of Use of Military Force...it does not give the president the authority to do "whatever he had to to win the war" which is how it differs from a Congressional "war powers" resolution. In fact, there were two AUMFs - one immediately following 9/11 (wide bi-partisan support) and a second to authorize the invasion of Iraq (not as bi-partisan).

The war powers are by no means "unprecedented." Compared to war powers during declared states of war, the Bush Admininstration's are somewhat reduced -- check what Roosevelt did with strikers during WW2. Granted, what we saw was a try at assuming war powers without the legal aegis of a Congressional declaration of war, which would have completely smoothed the President's road. Those exact war powers are still held by the Obama Presidency, by the way.

The difference that you fail to recognize from previous presidents (FDR). Congress declared war with a "war powers resolution". They did not for Bush's "war on terrorism"....there was no Congressionsal "declared state of war" as in WW II.

Many (most?) constitutional scholars, conservative and liberal, would suggest that an AUMF is not equal to a War Powers Resolution or Declaration of War.

Next- politicization of the Department of Justice

Here you seem to be mistaking the Bush Administration for its unfortunate predecessor. Watch your sources -- the Left is full of shitheads who assume their audience either has always had bad memories -- or convenient Memory Holes.

Please read the latest report (one of several) by Bush's own DoJ Inspector General (a liberal shithead?) on the politicization of the Dept of Justice over the last eight years. (Report slams politicized hiring process at DoJ) (DoJ Internal Report - pdf)