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[Nirvana]

Neither BSE among cattle, nor the new human variant of CJD, have been found in the United States. BSE was first reported among cattle in the United Kingdom (U.K) in November 1986. The source of the BSE outbreak is uncertain, but it is thought to have been amplified by feeding cattle with meat-and-bone meal from BSE-infected cattle. To contain the disease, the British government took a number of steps, including the institution of a feed ban prohibiting the use of meat-and-bone meal and slaughtering all cattle believed to be infected. These steps reduced the number of confirmed BSE cases in the U.K. from 36,680 in 1992 to fewer than 1,500 in 2000.

More recently, some cases of BSE have been identified among cattle in other European countries. Between 1989 and 2000, at least 1,642 cases of BSE have been identified among cattle in Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Liechtenstein, the Netherlands, Portugal, Spain and Switzerland.

Among humans, the total worldwide number of known vCJD cases is 92, including 88 in the U.K., three in France and one in Ireland.

U.S. agencies have acted quickly with precautionary steps to prevent BSE in cattle or vCJD in humans from occurring in this country. These steps include:

* Prohibiting importation of live ruminant animals and most ruminant products from all of Europe (USDA)

* Examining U.S. cattle exhibiting abnormal neurological behavior to test for BSE (USDA)

* Prohibiting the use of most mammalian protein in the manufacture of animal feeds given to ruminant animals (FDA)

* Recommending that animal tissues used in drug products should not come from a country with BSE (FDA)

* Issuing guidelines asking blood centers to exclude potential donors who have spent six or more cumulative months in the U.K. between 1980 and 1996 from donating blood (FDA)

* Conducting regular surveillance for any cases of vCJD among humans (CDC)

* Conducting research on BSE, CJD, vCJD and related neurological diseases (NIH)

BACKGROUND ON BSE AND vCJD

BSE (sometimes referred to as "mad cow disease") and variant and classic CJD belong to the unusual group of progressive, degenerative neurological diseases known as transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs). These diseases are characterized by a long incubation period of up to several years, during which there is no visible indication of the disease. The incubation period for BSE among cattle ranges from three to eight years; for vCJD among humans, the incubation period is unknown, but is at least five years and could extend up to 20 years or longer. The diseases are invariably fatal; there is no known treatment or cure.

It is believed that vCJD may be acquired from eating food products containing the BSE agent, and there is strong epidemiologic and laboratory evidence for a causal association between vCJD and BSE. The absence of confirmed cases of vCJD in geographic areas free of BSE supports a causal association. BSE and vCJD have never been identified in the United States.

BSE among cattle was first described in the U.K. in November 1986. Epidemiological evidence established that the outbreak of BSE was related to the production and use over many years of contaminated meat-and-bone meal. The source of the BSE outbreak is uncertain. There is strong evidence and general agreement that the outbreak was amplified by feeding rendered bovine meat-and-bone meal to young calves.

The vast majority of BSE cases have been reported in the U.K. Through November 2000, about 177,500 cases of BSE have been confirmed there in more than 35,000 herds of cattle. The U.K. epidemic peaked in January 1993 at nearly 1,000 new cases per week. Surveillance in Europe has also led to the identification of cases of BSE in Belgium, Denmark, France, Ireland, Liechtenstein, the Netherlands, Portugal and Switzerland and, most recently, in Germany, Spain and Italy. From 1995 through early December 2000, 88 human cases of vCJD were reported in the U.K, three in France and one in Ireland.

European countries have instituted a variety of public health control measures, such as BSE surveillance, the culling of sick animals, the banning of specified risk materials (SRMs), or a combination of these, to prevent potentially BSE-infected tissues from entering the human food chain. Due to its early outbreak, the most stringent of these measures have been applied in the U.K. In June 2000, the European Union Commission on Food Safety and Animal Welfare adopted a decision requiring all member states to remove SRMs from the animal feed and human food chains as of October 1, 2000; such bans had already been instituted in most member states.

U.S. ACTIONS: STEPS TO MINIMIZE ANY POSSIBLE RISK

No cases of BSE or vCJD have been identified in the United States despite ongoing nationwide surveillance. Working together, agencies within the federal government have taken a number of steps to minimize the risk of BSE in this country.

http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2001pres/01fsbse.html

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[glatt]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

I am a beef producer

Well there you go. You have a bit of a bias here on this issue. I'm just a beef consumer (or in this case, not a consumer any more) who knows how to read.

I really have little interest in having this discussion again, because it's history at this point. Beef producers used to grind up downer cows and feed them to healthy cows as standard practice, but after the mad cow scare, that practice was banned. Now that NEW rules have been in effect for maybe a decade, it's very unlikely for cows now to have the disease. And the beef supply is probably safe by now, because any infected cows have been eaten. I'm still going to wait a while before I start eating it again. Griff's comment about the dairy cows is a good point.

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Neither BSE among cattle, nor the new human variant of CJD, have been found in the United States.

This is simply false. You yourself have stated that there were cases of BSE infected cows in the USA, and that those cows came from outside the country. I remember two cow cases specifically. Maybe they are talking about full blown BSE cases. Pretty deceptive if they are making a distinction between an infected cow and a full blown disease. It reads like a Beef Council publicity memo.

The test rate was 1 cow tested for every 12,000 cows that were allowed to pass through the system untested. It was at that test rate that the first infected cow was found in the US. There was mild public outcry, so the government increased the testing (tenfold!) all the way up to a staggering 1 in 1,200. Then another infected cow was found in the US. After a few years of no more hits, the testing rate has dropped back down to a lower (unknown to me) number.

Where are all the numbers of infected humans in the US? That's the only legitimate point the pro-beef lobby has. There really aren't any cases. But it's interesting that the human variant of mad cow disease has almost the same symptoms as Alzheimers. And reported Alzheimers cases have increased astronomically in the last few decades. It would be very easy for misdiagnosed vCDJ cases to remain hidden within the population of reported Alzheimers cases.

In a small study at Yale led by Manuelidis in 1989, researchers discovered that 13 percent of patients diagnosed with Alzheimer's had CJD.

"The conclusion people might draw is that CJD is underdiagnosed and clinically can't be discriminated that easily from Alzheimer's disease," Manuelidis said.

CJD is not to be confused with vCJD, but it points to the common occurance of misdiagnosing dementia cases. With 4 million Alzheimers cases in this country, even a tiny percentage of misdiagnosed vCJD would add up to a lot of cases.

I don't feel much like arguing about mad cow now, especially in this thread, because with each passing day, the beef supply gets safer, and years have passed since there were BIG problems with the beef supply. It's basically safe now. But you couldn't say that 5-10 years ago because the rules were different and the testing rate was too low to have any validity.

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by glatt

Well there you go. You have a bit of a bias here on this issue. I'm just a beef consumer (or in this case, not a consumer any more) who knows how to read.


I really have little interest in having this discussion again, because it's history at this point. Beef producers used to grind up downer cows and feed them to healthy cows as standard practice, but after the mad cow scare, that practice was banned. Now that NEW rules have been in effect for maybe a decade, it's very unlikely for cows now to have the disease. And the beef supply is probably safe by now, because any infected cows have been eaten. I'm still going to wait a while before I start eating it again. Griff's comment about the dairy cows is a good point.
Please do not use your brush to paint me and other beef producers with your bias. I never ground up any downer cows to feed my cows neither have any of the beef producers I know. No one has done that in the USA in 20 years. That was still the practice in the UK and other countries but not here. We bury those cows. When they were allowed to be used as dog food thats where they went not in human food. Beef producers do not deserve that criticism if they are selling standing cows that become down during trucking. It is up to the processor to remove that cow and dispose of it in the manner accepted by the FDA and USDA.


This is simply false. You yourself have stated that there were cases of BSE infected cows in the USA, and that those cows came from outside the country. I remember two cow cases specifically. Maybe they are talking about full blown BSE cases. Pretty deceptive if they are making a distinction between an infected cow and a full blown disease. It reads like a Beef Council publicity memo.
These two cows originated in other countries. They were not from the US. US beef producers do not feed cattle in the same way as these other countries had.

The test rate was 1 cow tested for every 12,000 cows that were allowed to pass through the system untested. It was at that test rate that the first infected cow was found in the US.
There was mild public outcry, so the government increased the testing (tenfold!) all the way up to a staggering 1 in 1,200. Then another infected cow was found in the US. After a few years of no more hits, the testing rate has dropped back down to a lower (unknown to me) number.

Where are all the numbers of infected humans in the US? That's the only legitimate point the pro-beef lobby has. There really aren't any cases. But it's interesting that the human variant of mad cow disease has almost the same symptoms as Alzheimers.
While it may have the same symptoms it is not the same and that is just your assumption.
And reported Alzheimers cases have increased astronomically in the last few decades. It would be very easy for misdiagnosed vCDJ cases to remain hidden within the population of reported Alzheimers cases. CJD is not to be confused with vCJD, but it points to the common occurance of misdiagnosing dementia cases. With 4 million Alzheimers cases in this country, even a tiny percentage of misdiagnosed vCJD would add up to a lot of cases.
Nice scare tactic but no proof.

I don't feel much like arguing about mad cow now, especially in this thread, because with each passing day, the beef supply gets safer, and years have passed since there were BIG problems with the beef supply. It's basically safe now. But you couldn't say that 5-10 years ago because the rules were different and the testing rate was too low to have any validity.

Read The Jungle and then visit a modern day meat packing plant and then get back to me
My views are not based on bias they are based on fact not meat producer's propaganda or any animal rights propaganda. Most of the animals I raise are sold to kids for their 4-H beef projects. The rest are freezer beef or replacement genetics for other club calf producer's breeding programs. You are simply repeating AR activist propaganda. The solution for you is simple don't eat meat but don't use PETA tactics to scare others into thinking there is anything wrong with the beef supply in this country because of beef producers.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Nirvana

Please do not use your brush to paint me and other beef producers with your bias. I never ground up any downer cows to feed my cows neither have any of the beef producers I know. No one has done that in the USA in 20 years....

Beef producers do not deserve that criticism if they are selling standing cows that become down during trucking. It is up to the processor to remove that cow and dispose of it in the manner accepted by the FDA and USDA.

As recently as 2003, the manner accepted by the FDA and USDA was to grind up those downer cows and add them to feed to be fed to other cows.

You seem to be saying the problem is not with the "beef producers" but with the "processors." As a consumer, I don't care who tainted the meat. I just wanted it to stop.

The new December 2003 FDA/USDA regulations pretty much put a stop to it (although the inspections are pathetic.) So I'm just waiting for that entire population of cattle to be eaten before I dive back in. Not sure when that will be, but I'll stipulate again that the beef supply is probably safe by now.

Cheers.

[Nirvana]

Even before FDA prohibited feeding protein derived from ruminants, other than blood products, to ruminants in August 1997, only small amounts of animal proteins were fed to ruminants in the United States, primarily to dairy cattle, because of the relatively high cost of this type of feed. Range cattle, which are on pasture most of their lives, typically receive little protein supplement of any kind.


http://www.cattlenetwork.com/content...ntentid=250926

[glatt]

Holy crap, you are right. It was 1997 that feeding downer cows to other cows was banned. I was confused, because it was December 2003 that you could still feed a downer cow to a human.

But if you are trying to argue that the beef supply 5-10 years ago was safe, you aren't scoring any points for yourself by digging up those stats.

I'm done with this discussion. I really didn't want to be having it in the first place.

cheers

[Nirvana]

Originally Posted by glatt

Holy crap, you are right. It was 1997 that feeding downer cows to other cows was banned. I was confused, because it was December 2003 that you could still feed a downer cow to a human.

But if you are trying to argue that the beef supply 5-10 years ago was safe, you aren't scoring any points for yourself by digging up those stats.

I'm done with this discussion. I really didn't want to be having it in the first place.

cheers

You totally missed the point. It is suspected that BSE has its origins in feeding ruminant bone and blood meal to ruminants which was not widely done in this country and that was banned over ten years ago.
Dairy cows do not typically last over 5 years in confinement on cement. Those would be your downer cows. Down because of the way they were kept and they had toes removed or because they had respiratory infections, not because they had BSE. Downer cow does not = BSE. Do I want to eat those cows? No, I rarely eat at McDs and I don't eat luncheon meat.