PETA

[sugarpop]

Yes, but animals usually do not attack unless provoked, hungry, or protecting their young or their territory. Or in the case of predators, like cats, when they are teaching their young to hunt.

[xoxoxoBruce]

What about Doctors teaching their interns to heal?

[Happy Monkey]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Yes, but animals usually do not attack unless provoked, hungry, or protecting their young or their territory. Or in the case of predators, like cats, when they are teaching their young to hunt.

Humans usually don't hurt animals without a reason either.

I would support efforts to discourage exceptions to that.

[Nirvana]

http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petaKillsAnimals.cfm

[Nirvana]

PETA the name that is synonymous with hypocrisy

[wolf]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

No. I'm a witch.

Which has what to do with what?

I'm a witch and likely have entirely different ideas than you about how the world hangs together, which is entirely different from how Elspode might approach the same questions.

You know what they say, ask 10 witches about an issue, and you're likely to get 15 to 20 different opinions.

At risk of derailing the thread ... based on other statements you have made, what is your position on a woman's right to choose?

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Yes, but animals usually do not attack unless provoked, hungry, or protecting their young or their territory. Or in the case of predators, like cats, when they are teaching their young to hunt.

Those are precisely the reasons that I attack.

[Datalyss]

Originally Posted by wolf

Which has what to do with what?

Maybe sp believes in Animism, which is part of the religion for some Wiccans.

[morethanpretty]

Originally Posted by wolf

Which has what to do with what?

I has to do with being asked if she was Hindu. Don't think she was relating it to her opinion on animal cruelty or PETA.

Honestly I think pure breeding is bad as well, and parading the animals around judging them on how close they fit the mold. Pure breeding usually = inbreeding.
That is the issue PETA is addressing in that situation, and I think they are accurate, although extreme, by comparing it to race superiority.
I think PETA has its far-out there whacked up ideas. I also think they have some great ones.
Pitbulls are dangerous dogs, if the people who own them cannot be responsible, which often times they are not, then they should not own a pitbull. I've seen the damage first hand that a puppy can cause, and I thank my lucky stars I was able to prevent the it from killing my black lab, which with its jaws, it could have done easily despite that my black lab was twice its size at the time. I think it would be best if the breed was not allowed to further procreate. Also, just like any other type of dog, if the owner shows themselves to be irresponsible, the dog should be taken away from them. I think people who own particularly aggressive breeds of dogs, not just pitbulls, should have to keep the dog registered and adhere to strict protocols.

To address the issue of animal testing, I know that we have benefited from it, and might continue to do so. There are, or being developed alternative methods to that, and it is the ideal. I don't think we have the right to use animals however we want. Eating meat is different, those animals, hopefully lived a decent life, and died quick relatively painful deaths. Not like the animals in testing that suffer long term.
We are overpopulated, we need to cull our procreation as well. I think this needs to be a social change, government will just fuck it up. People need to change their mindset that they are entitled to have children, and that having children is the ultimate fulfillment. That stems from our basic instinct to survive and pass on our genes, and our need to live on through our kids. I hope that we can evolve past that, we're like lemmings, not knowing when it is necessary to stop. I hear a lot of people who also seem to think they somehow did their child a favor by giving them life, they didn't.

[Nirvana]

Honestly I think pure breeding is bad as well, and parading the animals around judging them on how close they fit the mold. Pure breeding usually = inbreeding.

How is any of that "bad" exactly?

[wolf]

Originally Posted by morethanpretty

I has to do with being asked if she was Hindu. Don't think she was relating it to her opinion on animal cruelty or PETA.

What I was trying to relay is that there is a commonality of belief amongst Hindus that just really doesn't exist amongst witches, or even witches of a particular sort, such as Wiccans.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by wolf

Which has what to do with what?

I'm a witch and likely have entirely different ideas than you about how the world hangs together, which is entirely different from how Elspode might approach the same questions.

You know what they say, ask 10 witches about an issue, and you're likely to get 15 to 20 different opinions.

At risk of derailing the thread ... based on other statements you have made, what is your position on a woman's right to choose?

Someone asked me if I was Hindu. I simply answered the question. I was not bringing that into the argument.

I know witches are very diverse groups of people, with all kinds of different ideas. I have known witches who weren't environmentalists, which to me, goes against the whole belief system. But part of being of a witch, at least in the sense that I call myself one, is also the idea that everyone is their own authority (I do not believe in heirarchical structures). If you know anything about Reclaiming or Feri, that is the system I follow.

To answer your question, I fully support a woman's right to choose.

Those are precisely the reasons that I attack.

And those are valid reasons to attack. But my argument for not using animals for testing follows that logic. At least it does in my mind.

[wolf]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

To answer your question, I fully support a woman's right to choose.

Then only selected portions of life are sacred to you.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by wolf

Then only selected portions of life are sacred to you.

Why? When you say life, you include all forms of life, and that includes bacteria and viruses and all kinds of things. Do you take medicine when you get sick? Then you are killing a lifeform. Do you swat mosquitos or flies or kill cockroaches? Killing a lifeform.

Believing all things are sacred does not mean you never destroy anything. It means you destroy as little as possible, and only when you really need to (we have to eat, one way or another, one form of life is dying to nourish us, whether plant, or animal). I do not have a problem with people eating meat, or drinking milk, I have a problem with the way the animals are raised and killed. We have to sometimes cut down trees, but that doesn't mean we should indiscriminately support destroying forests or trees, or clearcutting, for the sake of having wood. I am part Sioux, and that philosophy is a part of me. It is very akin to the principles of witchcraft. If you are a witch, you know there are creator/destroyer deities, and in practicing, you call on those attributes. In order to create, sometimes we have to destroy. The whole point is to do it honorably and mindfully.

And ftr, I do not think an embryo is the same thing as a human being. After an embryo reaches a certain point, I don't think women should have abortions, but I am not willing to force that on another, because they might not believe the same as I do. I don't think abortions should be used as birth control, but I also don't believe a woman should be forced to have a baby she doesn't want or cannot afford. Some women use birth control and still get pregnant. I don't think they should have to pay for that because it isn't their fault.

[Pico and ME]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

Why? When you say life, you include all forms of life, and that includes bacteria and viruses and all kinds of things. Do you take medicine when you get sick? Then you are killing a lifeform. Do you swat mosquitos or flies or kill cockroaches? Killing a lifeform.

Believing all things are sacred does not mean you never destroy anything. It means you destroy as little as possible, and only when you really need to (we have to eat, one way or another, one form of life is dying to nourish us, whether plant, or animal). I do not have a problem with people eating meat, or drinking milk, I have a problem with the way the animals are raised and killed. We have to sometimes cut down trees, but that doesn't mean we should indiscriminately support destroying forests or trees, or clearcutting, for the sake of having wood. I am part Sioux, and that philosophy is a part of me. It is very akin to the principles of witchcraft. If you are a witch, you know there are creator/destroyer deities, and in practicing, you call on those attributes. In order to create, sometimes we have to destroy. The whole point is to do it honorably and mindfully.

And ftr, I do not think an embryo is the same thing as a human being. After an embryo reaches a certain point, I don't think women should have abortions, but I am not willing to force that on another, because they might not believe the same as I do. I don't think abortions should be used as birth control, but I also don't believe a woman should be forced to have a baby she doesn't want or cannot afford. Some women use birth control and still get pregnant. I don't think they should have to pay for that because it isn't their fault.

I like your thinking, Sugarpop.

Even though I support animal rights/welfare groups, I sometimes think that its pointless, especially after witnessing responses like the ones posted here. So many people love to be against PETA without considering how just its presence is an important reminder that humans need to take care with how they use and consume the other inhabitants they share this planet with. Unfortunately, I think as a species, humans act just like a virus and they will keep cosuming/destroying this world until there is nothing left.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Pico and ME

I like your thinking, Sugarpop.

Even though I support animal rights/welfare groups, I sometimes think that its pointless, especially after witnessing responses like the ones posted here. So many people love to be against PETA without considering how just its presence is an important reminder that humans need to take care with how they use and consume the other inhabitants they share this planet with. Unfortunately, I think as a species, humans act just like a virus and they will keep cosuming/destroying this world until there is nothing left.

Thanks Pico.

As Agent Smith said in "The Matrix," "...I'd like to share a revelation that I've had during my time here. It came to me when I tried to classify your species. I realized that you're not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with the surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You move to an area, and you multiply, and multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plague, and we are the cure..."

Not that I agree with that totally, but I certainly do in part.