The Obamanation

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

There will always be a gap and there should be a gap, otherwise we call it socialism. We do not live in a socialistic society.

Of course we do. We have for decades.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by lookout123

How much did that house cost? Did they have two new(er)cars? Did they multiple cell phones? Big screen TV's? The gap between the richest and poorest has increased obscenely but what you seem to ignore is that neither is standing still. The middle class and in fact the lower class are have and do much more than they did 30/50/70 years ago. Once playthings for the rich, luxuries like these are available to most of the people you see in day to day life.

I know many middle class couples today who live on one income. That is a choice they made based on their priorities. They live within their means knowing they earn less than dual income middle class couples.

You know they didn't because that stuff wasn't invented yet. And you are right. They are not standing still. They are moving in opposite directions.

The people you are talking about must be upper middle class.

[TGRR]

Originally Posted by sugarpop

You know they didn't because that stuff wasn't invented yet. And you are right. They are not standing still. They are moving in opposite directions.

The people you are talking about must be upper middle class.

Lookout has apparently never hung out with the dirty boys on Grant Road, here in Tucson.

Big screen TVs, my ass.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by lookout123

Prove it.

IMO it all boils down to the fact that I don't really care what the rich have. If they gained it by playing inside the lines then good for them. There will always be a poverty line and there will always be some beneath it. I don't care at all about the amount it is set at because that will change. I support trying to make life tolerable with safety net programs designed to help them back on their feet and moving upward. Very few people genuinely don't have the ability to better their position in life if they see it as a priority and are willing to work at it.

You and I have different lines. I do not think it is playing inside the lines if they are getting bonuses while they lay off workers and cut their benefits. I do not think it is playing inside the lines when they get obscene salaries while the company they are running loses money, or when they rake in obscene profits, but they don't supply health care for their emplyees, so they are subsidized by the government. I do not believe it is playing inside the lines when the corporation is subsidized by the government but they keep all the profits. I do not believe the system is fair the way it is now.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

But thank God the influence of Capitolism far outweighs it. And we need to be sure we are talking about the same "socialism" as I have defined above.

yea, because that capitalist system is so great it has brought western civilization to the brink of destruction.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by classicman

Merc, you repeatedly miss her point. The AMOUNT of the gap is her issue.

Wow. Thank you classic. You actually got it.

[classicman]

A long time ago m'dear.

[TheMercenary]

Yea, like I said....

[classicman]

Obama declares US not at war with Islam

ANKARA, Turkey (AP) - Barack Obama, making his first visit to a Muslim nation as president, declared Monday the United States "is not and will never be at war with Islam."

Calling for a greater partnership with the Islamic world in an address to the Turkish parliament, Obama called the country an important U.S. ally in many areas, including the fight against terrorism. He devoted much of his speech to urging a greater bond between Americans and Muslims, portraying terrorist groups such as al Qaida as extremists who did not represent the vast majority of Muslims.

"Let me say this as clearly as I can," Obama said. "The United States is not and never will be at war with Islam. In fact, our partnership with the Muslim world is critical ... in rolling back a fringe ideology that people of all faiths reject."

The U.S. president is trying to mend fences with a Muslim world that felt it had been blamed by America for the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Al Jazeera and Al Arabiyia, two of the biggest Arabic satellite channels, carried Obama's speech live.

Obama said the partnership between the U.S. and the Muslim world is critical in rolling back what he called a fringe ideology that people of all faiths reject.

"America's relationship with the Muslim world cannot and will not be based on opposition to al Qaida," he said. "We seek broad engagement based upon mutual interests and mutual respect."

"We will convey our deep appreciation for the Islamic faith, which has done so much over so many centuries to shape the world for the better, including my own country," Obama said.

Could someone please explain some of them to me. Specifically those in the US. I am curious.

[Happy Monkey]

They saved Classical knowledge from the Christians (and added a significant amount of their own), enabling the Rennaissance.

That was quite a while ago, though, and they now seem to be where the Christians of that period were. Hopefully it takes them less time to get through it.

[Undertoad]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin..._and_engineers

[classicman]

Originally Posted by classicman

Specifically those in the US. I am curious.

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

They saved Classical knowledge from the Christians (and added a significant amount of their own), enabling the Rennaissance.

That was quite a while ago, though, and they now seem to be where the Christians of that period were. Hopefully it takes them less time to get through it.

I agree - I find his comments quite intriguing and with respect to the U.S., I am curious to know what Obama meant by that.

[Bullitt]

He might have just been speaking in general terms, alluding to the fact that we're a nation of immigrants all bringing different contributions to our local, state, and nationwide society. The "Great Melting Pot" idea and all that. An appeal to commonality, and an attempt to make the US appear more benevolent, in an effort to reverse the hawkish nature that some in the foreign Islamic communities see the US as is my knee-jerk reaction to what he said there. I doubt he'll make much progress with Turkey since he has recently (2008 I think) called for those yahoos to accept the Armenian Genocide.

[sugarpop]

I applaud Obama for making that speech. What I don't get is, so many people in the US think that people in that part of the world are different from us, and in one sense they are, but others, not so much. I'm sure most of the people over there want peace, and respect, and they want to live their lives without oppression. That does not necessarily mean they want a system like ours. I don't think they want to be occupied by US forces, just like we would not want to be occupied by foreign forces. I do not think they want to be told what they can or can't have or what they can and can't do, by us or by the Taliban. They are not children, and we should not treat them as such. I think we'll find, if we act in concert with them, that we will get a much better response than we have gotten in the past. This antiAmerican sentiment has been building for a long time. In order to repair that, we can't act like their parent. We have to like their partner.

[TheMercenary]

So what happens when they act like our partner and in fact they are actually using the relationship to screw us at every corner and take advantage of our friendships to exploit the relationship for their gain at our loss or worse to facilitate our demise?