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Old 05-03-2009, 07:24 AM   #76
TheMercenary
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I am less concerned with what Obama wants to do than I am with what Congress is going to do with it as it comes out of committee. And how Congress debates the bill and what process they use to vote on it. Time will tell.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:26 AM   #77
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Originally Posted by TheMercenary View Post
I am less concerned with what Obama wants to do than I am with what Congress is going to do with it as it comes out of committee. Time will tell.
So neither you nor Wills have anything to support his baseless claim other than your shared distaste for anything government.

I get it...same old bullshit and same old lack of cites from you.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:33 AM   #78
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So neither you nor Wills have anything to support his baseless claim other than your shared distaste for anything government.

I get it...same old bullshit and same old lack of cites from you.
The bold in my post by Will is not some fanciful wonderings of a political commentator. They are factual statements about the process of "reconciliation" and how many lawmakers and legal as well as political scholars view the process as proposed by the current Congress. The individual comes to the table with credentials. You bring none.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:35 AM   #79
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The same "reconciliation" Republicans used for welfare reform and Bush's $trillion tax cuts.

And still nothing in the budget proposal, or anything put forth by any Democratic member of Congress, to support Will's conclusion about govt run health care and freezing out private insurers.

That is a fact as well.
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:49 AM   #80
TheMercenary
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Originally Posted by Redux View Post
The same "reconciliation" Republicans used for welfare reform and Bush's $trillion tax cuts.

And still nothing in the budget proposal, or anything put forth by any Democratic member of Congress, to support Will's conclusion about govt run health care and freezing out private insurers.

That is a fact as well.
You are a shill for the Obama Administration.

http://cellar.org/showpost.php?p=562425&postcount=76
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:52 AM   #81
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Another perspective:

Government-Run Health Care?
Quote:
A group called Conservatives for Patients' Rights began airing a television ad this week that criticizes government-run health care and falsely suggests Congress wants a British-style system here in the U.S.:

* The ad neglects to mention that President Obama hasn't proposed a government-run plan and, in fact, has rejected the idea.

* It claims that a research council created by the stimulus bill is "the first step in government control over your health care choices." The legislation actually says the council isn't permitted to "mandate coverage, reimbursement, or other policies."

Conservatives for Patients’ Rights is, as its name indicates, a conservative group, and it’s also quite obviously not a proponent of government-run health care. Its minute-long ad was launched April 27 with what the group said was a month-long $1 million buy.

...the ad implies that the U.S. Congress wants to implement a health system like those in Britain and Canada. That's contrary to what President Obama and Democratic leaders in Congress have said.

Obama hasn’t called for such a government-run plan, also called a “single-payer" plan. In fact, he has flatly rejected it. The administration has said on the White House’s “Health Care” Web page (and previously on its transition site) that “President Obama and Vice President Biden believe” that government-run health care is “wrong.” And they also believe, the administration says, that the other extreme, “letting the insurance companies operate without rules,” is wrong

Obama has long said he would allow individuals or small businesses to buy insurance through a public plan – like the one now available to members of Congress. But nobody would be forced to drop his or her current insurance, and private plans would exist as they do now. This was the health care plan he promoted as a presidential candidate.

More recently, single-payer advocates have felt shunned by the White House and Congress as the debate over changing the U.S. system has begun. In early March, no single-payer advocate was invited to a White House summit on health care, leading a group of physicians who back such a system to say Obama's message to them and similar groups was to "drop dead." A day before the summit, the White House extended invitations to the president of the group....

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/go...alth_care.html
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Old 05-03-2009, 07:54 AM   #82
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You are a shill for the Obama Administration.
LOL....your standard response when I ask you to cite anything factual to support your editorials.

Its OK..call me whatever you want. That is what you do best (although you're not very good at it.)

It doesnt change the facts....and you still havent cited anything from the Democrats in Congress that would suggest plans for a single payer, government run health care system and driving the private sector out.
"We are not Europe. We are not Canada. We need
a uniquely American solution. It has to be a partnership of public and private players."
-- Sen Max Baucus, the Dem point man on health reform in Congress.

Maybe because its just more conservative bullshit?

Last edited by Redux; 05-03-2009 at 08:16 AM.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:15 AM   #83
TheMercenary
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You don't read very well, or you just want to focus on one aspect of Will's commentary. As I stated. I am less concerned with what Obama says he thinks he is going to do as I am with what the final product is going to be coming out of Congress and how they vote on it in the end. {See bold in Will's commentary, which is factual.}

Do I really need to continue to link you back to my previous posts to make that point?
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:18 AM   #84
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You don't read very well, or you just want to focus on one aspect of Will's commentary. As I stated. I am less concerned with what Obama says he thinks he is going to do as I am with what the final product is going to be coming out of Congress and how they vote on it in the end. {See bold in Will's commentary, which is factual.}

Do I really need to continue to link you back to my previous posts to make that point?
And I asked you to provide any cite that Congress is even considering a single payer, govt run health care system that would drive out the private sector....and you wont or cant.
"We are not Europe. We are not Canada. We need a uniquely American solution. It has to be a partnership of public and private players." -- Sen Max Baucus, the Democrat point man on health reform in Congress.
Fact...there is no Democrat plan or even remote suggestion for a single payer, govt run health care system.

Do I need to continue to point out the baseless conservative bullshit you post?

The only thing factual in that editorial is that the Democrats, like the Republicans before them, may use reconciliation on a health care reform bill...and even that is questionable w/o support of guys like Baucus.

Last edited by Redux; 05-03-2009 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:25 AM   #85
TheMercenary
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On a higher note:

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/go...alth_care.html

was a good link. I believe that is a more accurate assessment of how they want things to go. But they have not sent it through the grinder of lobbyist and special interest groups in Congress so the final product remains to be seen. And on top of that, how is it going to be paid for by the rest of us with jobs and insurance.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:36 AM   #86
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On a higher note:

http://www.factcheck.org/politics/go...alth_care.html

was a good link. I believe that is a more accurate assessment of how they want things to go. But they have not sent it through the grinder of lobbyist and special interest groups in Congress so the final product remains to be seen. And on top of that, how is it going to be paid for by the rest of us with jobs and insurance.
The cost of health care reform will be at the heart of the debate.

It would be nice if the bullshit about a govt run system could be excluded from the debate, but that wont happen. I suspect it will be the Republican talking point throughout....along with talk of "rationing care" and "government taking away choices" and "controlling all health care decisions" for you and me.

And as you probably know, from being in the health care system, you and I and the rest of us with jobs and insurance are already paying for the 45+ million uninsured and, for many workers, health care costs are the fastest rising costs they face.

Not to mention the impending Medicare explosion as baby boomers drop into the system.

Something has to be done to provide affordable and accessible health care for all and someone has to pay.

Last edited by Redux; 05-03-2009 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 05-03-2009, 08:46 AM   #87
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Something has to be done to provide affordable and accessible health care for all and someone has to pay.
I can't agree more. I just don't want it to be me who pays more.
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:35 AM   #88
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That's the point of this whole change in the system, if it doesn't happen you will pay more, much much more.
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Old 05-03-2009, 09:55 AM   #89
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That's the point of this whole change in the system, if it doesn't happen you will pay more, much much more.
I am afraid that even if it does change I will be paying more, much more. I have started to hear federal tax rates as high as 49% being floated around, but to date have not found a reliable source for those numbers. That is quite unreasonable IMHO.
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Old 05-03-2009, 10:34 AM   #90
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I have started to hear federal tax rates as high as 49% being floated around, but to date have not found a reliable source for those numbers.
wut
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