Impeding changes to our Health Care system

[skysidhe]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

Time for some historical perspective.

Interesting Kit and along the same lines I stumbled upon this.

Someone's opinion I may or maynot agree with.http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x6296630

[Kitsune]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Interesting Kit and along the same lines I stumbled upon this.

I've been listening to both sides of this for weeks in the hopes that I would find what strange cultural facet of America makes this so different from other countries. But, I still don't get it. Someone, I'm hoping, will explain this all to me, someday, and tell me why universal heathcare brings about such frothing rage and anger over lost freedoms when the changes and laws passed over the past eight years involving indefinite detainment, domestic wiretapping, and the unchecked hemorrhaging of billions of dollars into various military contract black holes to fight a vague concept, The War on Terror. Why weren't the talking heads on AM radio spitting pissed at the use, loss, and theft of their tax dollars then? And I get the libertarian ideals being promoted in this argument, that my money should not go to help someone else involuntarily, but why is this debate the one bringing out all the extremists and not the other tens of thousands of services the government provides with taxpayer money?

We have strange ideals, these days.

I'm annoyed that we are the only westernized country that can't get seem to ever get universal healthcare correct, but I'm even more frightened at the response to it that my fellow citizens are displaying that seems to be a protest against aid to those that need it and a position that seems to lean towards the "fuck you if you can't afford it" style of healthcare. In an incredible show of irony, a large percentage of the people at the town hall protests are elderly and hold a sign declaring our country is heading down the path of nazi-esque socialism as they verbally issue their concerns about what will happen to their Medicaid/Medicare if UHC is implemented.

Really, is this what we've come to? That we are willing to hand over billions of dollars and much of our freedoms, virtually unquestioned, to our military and intelligence agencies in the name of protecting American lives but how dare we try spend a tiny fraction of that amount to fund healthcare for those that can't afford it in the name of, uh...protecting American lives?

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by Kitsune

I've been listening to both sides of this for weeks in the hopes that I would find what strange cultural facet of America makes this so different from other countries. But, I still don't get it. Someone, I'm hoping, will explain this all to me, someday, and tell me why universal heathcare brings about such frothing rage and anger over lost freedoms when the changes and laws passed over the past eight years involving indefinite detainment, domestic wiretapping, and the unchecked hemorrhaging of billions of dollars into various military contract black holes to fight a vague concept, The War on Terror. Why weren't the talking heads on AM radio spitting pissed at the use, loss, and theft of their tax dollars then? And I get the libertarian ideals being promoted in this argument, that my money should not go to help someone else involuntarily, but why is this debate the one bringing out all the extremists and not the other tens of thousands of services the government provides with taxpayer money?

We have strange ideals, these days.

I'm annoyed that we are the only westernized country that can't get seem to ever get universal healthcare correct, but I'm even more frightened at the response to it that my fellow citizens are displaying that seems to be a protest against aid to those that need it and a position that seems to lean towards the "fuck you if you can't afford it" style of healthcare. In an incredible show of irony, a large percentage of the people at the town hall protests are elderly and hold a sign declaring our country is heading down the path of nazi-esque socialism as they verbally issue their concerns about what will happen to their Medicaid/Medicare if UHC is implemented.

Really, is this what we've come to? That we are willing to hand over billions of dollars and much of our freedoms, virtually unquestioned, to our military and intelligence agencies in the name of protecting American lives but how dare we try spend a tiny fraction of that amount to fund healthcare for those that can't afford it in the name of, uh...protecting American lives?

I agree. The argument that healthcare should only be for those who can afford the astronomical (and growing) premiums/cost is just crazy, especially when you look at how much the executives make. Healthcare should not be about profit, it should be about the health of the people. I remember getting into arguments with people who say insurance and healthcare is a business, and in the true sense of capitalism, they should be able to charge whatever the market will bear. Well, when tens of millions of people are left out in the wilderness and over a million people a year are filing bankruptcy because of healthcare costs (according to the AARP), and over 60% of bankruptcies are related to medical bills (http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releas...-imb060309.php), that is obviously NOT what the market can bear, and eventually it will become a serious threat to national security.

I wonder why THIS wasn't front page news instead of the stupid "death panel" hysteria coming from Sarah Palin and Rush Limbaugh? What is it the right is saying about "rationed care" and long lines?

I think many of the people who are against reform have insurance with their jobs, or they have never had to deal with a catastrophic illness or with their insurance company not refusing to pay a claim. Once it happens to them, they will change their tune. Honestly, why the hell aren't they mad about how much the executives are making?

***OOPS. I see now that this has already been debated. Sorry!***

[gadfly]

Two suggestions that were presented to me in regards to funding of Health care and National debt.
1 . Let upper class tax cuts expire in 2010.
2. Obviously to increase taxes. But to which class Upper or Middle? Forget the lower.

Interesting to me are the tax percentages.
Top tax on earned income Capital Gains Corporate Profits
1979 70 28 48
2006 35 15 35


What picture is painted?

[xoxoxoBruce]

The Five Biggest Lies in the Health Care Debate.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The Five Biggest Lies in the Health Care Debate.

Illegal immigrants will get free health insurance.
The House bill doesn't give anyone free health care (though under a 1986 law illegals who can't pay do get free emergency care now, courtesy of all us premium paying customers or of hospitals that have to eat the cost)

Thanks, Dutch.

[sugarpop]

Originally Posted by skysidhe

Interesting Kit and along the same lines I stumbled upon this.

Someone's opinion I may or maynot agree with.http://www.democraticunderground.com...ss=389x6296630

bwahahahahaha