Students Kicked Off Campus for Wearing American Flag Tees

[xoxoxoBruce]

I doubt that, the article didn't mention anything about the Mexicans protesting or even being offended. This is just the school administration flexing their muscles, in the name of politically correct.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

I doubt that, the article didn't mention anything about the Mexicans protesting or even being offended. This is just the school administration flexing their muscles, in the name of politically correct.

Yes it did.

But to many Mexican-American students at Live Oak, this was a big deal. They say they were offended by the five boys and others for wearing American colors on a Mexican holiday.

"I think they should apologize cause it is a Mexican Heritage Day," Annicia Nunez, a Live Oak High student, said. "We don't deserve to be get disrespected like that. We wouldn't do that on Fourth of July."

Originally Posted by TheMercanry

So what? The action they did take was inappropriate. I hope the kids sue the school for kicking them off campus.

This is only the latest of political correctness gone wrong in the US..

Depends on the situation. We have no idea who these kids are or how they act. I am probably biased, but I have a feeling these kids are like the kids at my school who drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day.....in Wisconsin.

If these kids just happened to wear a shirt or bandanna with the American flag on it, then the school should have handled it better.

If the kids wore it as a big fuck you to the Mexican American population, which I am assuming it was, then I completely agree with the school's decision. It isn't ideal, but putting myself in their place, I would rather force someone to change their shirt then deal with some race related fights, which I know happen at other places.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Yes it did.




Depends on the situation. We have no idea who these kids are or how they act. I am probably biased, but I have a feeling these kids are like the kids at my school who drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day.....in Wisconsin.

If these kids just happened to wear a shirt or bandanna with the American flag on it, then the school should have handled it better.

If the kids wore it as a big fuck you to the Mexican American population, which I am assuming it was, then I completely agree with the school's decision. It isn't ideal, but putting myself in their place, I would rather force someone to change their shirt then deal with some race related fights, which I know happen at other places.

Even when people are dicks, you can't take action against them unless they actually do something wrong. This is a cornerstone of a free, law-abiding society. Once you open things up to the vagaries of spur-of-the-moment "feelings" and opinions, you accept that next time they could be coming for YOU if they don't like your attitude about something. That's not America.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Flint

Even when people are dicks, you can't take action against them unless they actually do something wrong. This is a cornerstone of a free, law-abiding society. Once you open things up to the vagaries of spur-of-the-moment "feelings" and opinions, you accept that next time they could be coming for YOU if they don't like your attitude about something. That's not America.

This is where we disagree. I am not defending the school just because I disagree with the actions of those students. I am not offended by their actions just as I was not offended when students from my school drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day. It is about preventing something bigger from happening.

I do know places where an act such of this would have resorted in violence and could have brought other students into this as well. There are stupid racist who will do something to "make a statement" and there are stupid people who will use violence to "shut them up". If school's can avoid those situations, within reason, then I agree with the avoidance strategy.

I don't know if this school is such a place. If it is not, then yes, it is a stretch of political correctness. If it is, then I back the school's decision to attempt to avoid violence from breaking out in their school.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

...an act such of this...

Quick reality check: an "act such as this" refers to what?

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Flint

Quick reality check: an "act such as this" refers to what?

How is that a reality check? I am fully aware how stupid it is to resort to violence if you are offended that someone wore an American flag during Cinco de Mayo or if someone wore a Mexican flag during the 4th of July. But, unfortunately, it happens.

As Classicman's post states, that decision was about safety, not about political correctness. Obviously it could still be an overreaction from the school district, but my gut feeling says it is not.

Once again, we don't anything about these students besides that they wear American flags on their clothes every once in a while. They could be legitimate patriotic people, or they could full out white supremacist. We don't know. But from my personal experience, the only people that would think about wearing an American flag during Cinco de Mayo, in a school with a large Hispanic population, then get all defensive about it, are more towards the racist side.

[classicman]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

As Classicman's post states, that decision was about safety, not about political correctness. Obviously it could still be an overreaction from the school district, but my gut feeling says it is not.

I don't believe that at all. This has PC written all over it and its bullshit.

we don't anything about these students besides that they wear American flags on their clothes every once in a while.

And we don't know anything about the other kids, except they are "Mexican Americans." Are they into human trafficing. prostitution, drugs gun running??? We don't know squat about either side.
Oh and why is it these people can no longer just refer to themselves as Americans? Why is it everytime this crap come up they get to use their "label of choice" F-that.

They could be legitimate patriotic people, or they could full out white supremacist. We don't know. But from my personal experience, the only people that would think about wearing an American flag during Cinco de Mayo, in a school with a large Hispanic population, then get all defensive about it, are more towards the racist side.

When I got dressed Wed am, the fact that it was Cinco de Mayo had ZERO to do with my choice of attire. Pretty much like every other day of the year. I understand that my area and this have vastly different cultures and population compositions, but still.

To call these kids out for wearing the US flag on their shirts IN THE US because its another country's holiday is complete and utter BS. That guy should be fired - that is the appropriate action.

[Flint]

Originally Posted by Flint

Quick reality check: an "act such as this" refers to what?

You didn't answer the question. Again, you said:

I do know places where an act such of this would have resorted in violence and could have brought other students into this as well.

What is the "act" that you refer to? I think it is important to the realization of a fully formed idea that it's constituent parts can be specified. I propose, unless you have some additional points that you have not brought forward, that you are referring to the act of thoughtcrime.

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

We don't know. But from my personal experience, the only people that would think about wearing an American flag during Cinco de Mayo, in a school with a large Hispanic population, then get all defensive about it, are more towards the racist side.

Your position assumes that you can speak to the internal disposition of an individual, to "see" the bad intent "inside" them.

Again, you can't take action simply because you think someone is being a dick. There has to be a tangible offense.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by piercehawkeye45

Yes it did.




Depends on the situation. We have no idea who these kids are or how they act. I am probably biased, but I have a feeling these kids are like the kids at my school who drove around with a Confederate flag on their car during Martin Luther King Day.....in Wisconsin.

If these kids just happened to wear a shirt or bandanna with the American flag on it, then the school should have handled it better.

If the kids wore it as a big fuck you to the Mexican American population, which I am assuming it was, then I completely agree with the school's decision. It isn't ideal, but putting myself in their place, I would rather force someone to change their shirt then deal with some race related fights, which I know happen at other places.

None of that matters and none of that should have played into a decision by the powers that be to ban students of their First Amendment Rights. Fuck who ever disagrees with them. Isn't that the new norm?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

None of that matters and none of that should have played into a decision by the powers that be to ban students of their First Amendment Rights. Fuck who ever disagrees with them. Isn't that the new norm?

First Amendment rights?

Another over reaction, IMO.

Minors have never had absolute First Amendment rights, particularly in a school environment.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

First Amendment rights?

Another over reaction, IMO.

Minors have never had absolute First Amendment rights, particularly in a school environment.

Why would you prevent minors from having the same rights as illegal aliens?

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

Why would you prevent minors from having the same rights as illegal aliens?

This is not a First Amendment issue. You can find school policies and practices in any school in the country that limit the "rights" of students.

Minors do not have an absolute right to freedom of expression. They cant legally express themselves by smoking, driving, etc.......

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Redux

This is not a First Amendment issue. You can find school policies and practices in any school in the country that limit the "rights" of students.

Minors do not have an absolute right to freedom of expression. They cant legally smoke, drive, etc.......

Oh God that is just rich.

BS.

It depends on the state law.

You have been exposed.

You are willing to support Illegal Aliens over legal US Citizens.

Keep digging.

[squirell nutkin]

Originally Posted by Redux

This is not a First Amendment issue. You can find school policies and practices in any school in the country that limit the "rights" of students.

Minors do not have an absolute right to freedom of expression. They cant legally express themselves by smoking, driving, etc.......

You should actually read up on what your first amendment rights are.

First, Minors do have 1st amendment rights. Second, if the school is a public school or receives funding from the government then your speech is protected. Where speech is protected is defined as a "public forum" How that forum is defined is complex. In certain circumstances a public school may not be a public forum, but I couldn't say what those might be.
Illegal speech or expression is not protected speech.
There are a number of exclusions to one's freedom of expression and hate speech or inciting to riot or exhorting someone to break the law are all unprotected speech.
Here is a pretty good summary of the First Amendment.

It's been about 15 years since I studied the topic in school, so I am a little foggy on details. Maybe I'll read the link myself.

You might make the argument that wearing the flag tshirts was inflammatory speech (therefore not protected) It is a bit ironic that wearing clothing made from or depicting the US flag, during the Viet Nam war would be grounds for a summary ass whipping while the cops made sure no one broke up the fight.

Times, they are a changin'

Expressive Conduct

In West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624, 63 S. Ct. 1178, 87 L. Ed. 1628 (1943), Justice robert h. jackson wrote that symbols are "a short cut from mind to mind." Expressive conduct or Symbolic Speech involves communicative conduct that is the behavioral equivalent of speech. The conduct itself is the idea or message. Some expressive conduct is the equivalent of speech and is protected by the First Amendment.

In tinker v. des moines independent community school district, 393 U.S. 503, 89 S. Ct. 733, 21 L. Ed. 2d 731 (1969), the U.S. Supreme Court held that it was unconstitutional to suspend high-school students for wearing black armbands to protest the Vietnam War, because their conduct was "akin to pure speech" and did not interfere with the work of the school or the rights of other students.

In Good News Club v. Milford Central School, 533 U.S. 98, 121 S. Ct. 2093, 150 L. Ed.2d 151 (2001), the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that a private Christian organization could not be denied use of the public school space for after-school activities. The Court emphasized that the Establishment Clause could not serve as a barrier to the organization's exercise of its free speech rights. Justice Clarence Thomas, in his majority opinion, addressed the freedom-of-speech argument. He noted that the school was a limited public forum and that the state therefore was not required to permit persons "to engage in every type of speech." However, the state's ability to restrict speech was not unlimited. In addition, the state could not discriminate against speech on the basis of viewpoint. Justice Thomas wrote that the school district decision had unlawfully imposed this requirement. He pointed to recent Court decisions that had forbidden states to prevent religious groups from using public facilities or to receive funding for an undergraduate organization.

Statutes that prohibit the desecration of the U.S. flag have been found to restrict free expression unconstitutionally. In texas v. johnson, 491 U.S. 397, 109 S. Ct. 2533, 105 L. Ed. 2d 342 (1989), the Court overturned Gregory L. Johnson's conviction for burning a U.S. flag during a demonstration. Johnson's actions were communicative conduct that warranted First Amendment protection, even though they were repugnant to many people. Similarly, in United States v. Eichman, 496 U.S. 310, 110 S. Ct. 2404, 110 L. Ed. 2d 287 (1990), the Court struck down the federal Flag Protection Act of 1989, 103 Stat. 777, 18 U.S.C.A. § 700, stating that the government's interest in passing the act had been a desire to suppress free expression and the content of the message that the act of flag burning conveys.

[classicman]

Since thats the new rule, I pronounce on the 4th of July all "hyphenated-Americans" cannot wear, nor show the pride of the country from which they came... All flags must be taken down and all apparel, toilet paper, buttons bumper stickers ect. must be removed or covered for the entire day. But remember thats racist.
Yes I am taking this point to an extreme, but is there really a difference?

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Well it's high time these fuckers decide whether they are mexicans or Americans.
Oh, and no hyphenated bullshit, get off the fucking fence.

Bravo!