Religion vs Addiction

Spexxvet · 07-01-2010, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

Reading list:
Two good starter books are Taking the Path of Zen by Robert Aitken
and The Eight Gates of Zen by John Daido Loori.

Both are highly accessible, written by westerners.
I'd stay away from some of the more philosophical stuff as it will create too much confusion, especially Alan Watts who wasn't a practitioner and gets a lot of stuff wrong.

Many Zen books make more sense after you've practiced. Popular culture has put the word on everyone's lips with lots of misinformation.

I've read some Watts. I think I'll try the Aitken. Thanks.

Stormieweather · 07-01-2010, 10:59 AM

Religion can be as addicting as anything else. As someone with an addictive personality, I have to be self-aware enough to recognize when something has gone from an 'interest' to an 'addiction'. And strong enough to eliminate the addictive behavior.

I dislike 12step programs because, in my opinion, they remove personal responsibility for recovery from the addict. Ie: it's in God's/your higher power's hands. It forces you to admit that you are powerless and any and all credit for your successes in staying sober belong to God. God helped me, I'm sure, but I am the one that put down the beer for good. I am the one that threw out the cigarettes after 34 years. I am the one that put my gaming on a strict schedule. I DO have enough self-control to manage these things and I've proved it time and time again. Knowing that I can do these things is hugely important in maintaining that self-control and confidence in myself. I want nothing to do with negative self-talk that revolves around...I can't do it...someone has to help me...I'm a failure without being propped up...I'm effed up and always will be...

Nope. Not true. /rant off

For Griff, here is a neat site with translations of many ancient writings:
Sacred Texts

squirell nutkin · 07-01-2010, 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

I've read some Watts. I think I'll try the Aitken. Thanks.

I'm curious to hear what you think of Aitken. The main criticism of Watts is that he was an observer and thinker about the ideas of Zen, many of which he didn't understand or over-intellectualized. One of the key things about Zen is "Don't take my word for it, find out for yourself." i.e. personal verification. Watts is like a guy who studied all the great woodworkers, read all the tool catalogs, knew the names of all the trees., but had never picked up a tool or been in the woods.
A classic example of "the map is not the territory."

Still, his books did help spread familiarity with Zen in the west.

HungLikeJesus · 07-01-2010, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

...
A classic example of "the map is not the territory."

...

Ah, I like that movie.

squirell nutkin · 07-01-2010, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

Ah, I like that movie.

Ohh that's going right on my queue. I love Natasha McElhone.

BigV · 07-01-2010, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by squirell nutkin

Ohh that's going right on my queue. I love Natasha McElhone.

/off topic/

sprechen sie Netflix?

/back on topic/

07-01-2010, 10:59 AM	#2
Stormieweather Wearing her bitch boots Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Floriduh Posts: 1,181	Religion can be as addicting as anything else. As someone with an addictive personality, I have to be self-aware enough to recognize when something has gone from an 'interest' to an 'addiction'. And strong enough to eliminate the addictive behavior. I dislike 12step programs because, in my opinion, they remove personal responsibility for recovery from the addict. Ie: it's in God's/your higher power's hands. It forces you to admit that you are powerless and any and all credit for your successes in staying sober belong to God. God helped me, I'm sure, but I am the one that put down the beer for good. I am the one that threw out the cigarettes after 34 years. I am the one that put my gaming on a strict schedule. I DO have enough self-control to manage these things and I've proved it time and time again. Knowing that I can do these things is hugely important in maintaining that self-control and confidence in myself. I want nothing to do with negative self-talk that revolves around...I can't do it...someone has to help me...I'm a failure without being propped up...I'm effed up and always will be... Nope. Not true. /rant off For Griff, here is a neat site with translations of many ancient writings: Sacred Texts __________________ "First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Gandhi

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