Time magazine cover - What happens when we leave

[xoxoxoBruce]

Maybe a tiny price we parents in the US, have to pay is being forced to explain to our kids how it comes to be that young girls can be so mistreated.

The same as explaining the same thing happens in many other places.

But the current fighting has come to be with the Taliban.
This makes it a religious war, and one that a "Christian" nation can not win.

I disagree. It does not make it a religious war, unless you are saying Afghans who don't support the Taliban are not really Muslims.
Indeed the rest of the people in the world, that don't agree with the Taliban, can't be Muslims.
It's a culture war... we, and the Taliban, wish to impose our culture on the Afghans.
Both say it's to save the Afghans from the other.

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

The same as explaining the same thing happens in many other places.

I disagree. It does not make it a religious war, unless you are saying Afghans who don't support the Taliban are not really Muslims.
Indeed the rest of the people in the world, that don't agree with the Taliban, can't be Muslims.
It's a culture war... we, and the Taliban, wish to impose our culture on the Afghans.
Both say it's to save the Afghans from the other.

No, I did not mean to say that at all.

I said that Americans have been mislead for a long time. I think most Americans now believe that if the Taliban returns to power, only their version of Islamic law will be tolerated, and that is the reason we are fighting them. It is that belief that makes it a religious war... certainly the Al Queda in Afghanistan is no longer a viable reason.

But it is exactly that aspect of tribal custom and religious practice that I believe is negotiable... other areas in the world governed by Islamic law do not necessarily harbor Al Queda, cut off the nose / ears of young girls because they flee abusive in-laws, stone women for adultery, prohibit education of women, and the other (abhorrent) practices that have been portrayed in the US media.

But if the US cannot tolerate that country being governed by Islamic law, we will either be there militarily for years to come with still no guarantee of "success", or whatever government we set up there will fail soon after our military leaves.

[tw]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I said that Americans have been mislead for a long time. I think most Americans now believe that if the Taliban returns to power, only their version of Islamic law will be tolerated, and that is the reason we are fighting them. It is that belief that makes it a religious war... certainly the Al Qaeda in Afghanistan is no longer a viable reason.

Al Qaeda in general, and bin Laden in particular, are the reasons #1 we are back. After having been essentially defeated the first time.

Taliban is a target only because they remain protecting Al Qaeda.

For a while, negotiations caused the Taliban to reassess their association with Al Qaeda. It’s not entirely clear why those negotiation terminated. Some reasons point to Pakistan (not the big wigs - the littler power brokers) helping to subvert those negotiations. But the bottom line remains the #1 target - bin Laden and Al Qaeda. Never forget that.

If we so hated Islamic law, well, why is it practiced in countries we call friends - ie Saudi Arabia?

It's not about Islamic law. That picture is only incendiary. Its only purpose is to make everyone emotional. That picture says why the first Afghan war could have been so easily won. But now those advantages are lost. We abandoned those same people to the Taliban because our leaders (and their wacko supporters) were that dumb.

Now we have a problem. We no longer have trust necessary to defeat the Taliban. No longer have trust that was necessary to get bin Laden. Another legacy of George Jr.

Do not for one minute forget what is enemy number one. bin Laden in particular. And Al Qaeda in general.

Al Qaeda that only existed in Indonesia and Iraq because wackos love to lie. bin Laden who was trapped in Torra Borra with the 10th Mountain Division just down the road. And the 10th was denied permission to go after bin Laden. Thank you George Jr. That is why our problems are so complicated now. Stupidity at the highest levels of government where an extemist party agenda was more important than America.

Having essentially made bin Laden into a martyr, we have now provided he and his organization with supporters. Even in some parts of the Pakistani government that regards the Afghan government as an enemy and ally of India. What a mess. Our target is now embedded in and camouflaged by numerous peripheral entities.

Once upon a time, it was easy to see the enemy. Most all opposed him. Today, due to one of this nation's dumbest presidents, that problem is extremely complex. George Jr all but surrendered to the Taliban. What a mess a dumb leader can make.

Even now, many still confuse that Time Magazine picture with why we are there. Picture is for silly emotions. And not relevant to America's strategic objectives. Ignore silly emotions. Never forget who and what is enemy #1.

[wanderer]

Originally Posted by tw

Having essentially made bin Laden into a martyr, we have now provided he and his organization with supporters. Even in some parts of the Pakistani government that regards the Afghan government as an enemy and ally of India. What a mess. Our target is now embedded in and camouflaged by numerous peripheral entities.

Agreed.

[Shawnee123]

Originally Posted by wanderer

Agreed.

He's a smart cookie!