The Roads Must Roll!

Lamplighter · 08-09-2010, 07:12 PM

I might be able to agree in this particular instance, but private businesses are rarely willing to compete with governmental entities on an even footing, so non-compete clauses abound in contracts.
Even physicians bemoan the patients that are "pulled out of their practices" by the same medical school and hospital where they received their own training !

Also, $1 / year for the right of way on the median was a major governmental give-away after doing all the prior bonding, development, engineering, land procurement and basic construction of the existing freeways. If a Libertarian principle is to hold true, that private enterprise would have had to do all that work at it's own expense.

All this is beside the point of toll-roads and congestion-pricing.
Toll roads are not new, but private ownership certainly is.
Sports stadiums are good examples of how the public can be beaten up for the benefit of private owners.

xoxoxoBruce · 08-09-2010, 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

All this is beside the point of toll-roads and congestion-pricing.

Seems to me, the people who have a choice of when to travel, would be more reticent of gridlock than a $1 toll.

Lamplighter · 08-10-2010, 08:08 AM

I took this thread to be about a more a "Libertarian" way of doing things.
That is, private ownership of roads and not so much a debate about toll roads and congestion pricing.
But so far as fees go...

On the 10-mile stretch on Hwy 91, current tolls range from $1.30 - $9.80.
It also has a minimum fine of $341 for not having sufficient funds in your account to cover your tolls.
Even banks don't charge overdraft fees that high...

So what does "Congestion pricing" mean... it means that as the prices go higher it tends to push "excess" vehicles OFF the toll way and back on to regular roads. That is, the effect is to artificially increase and perpetuate even more congestion on the non-toll roads.

This is opposed to charging the same fee all the time which would have the effect of always diluting the congestion and increasing traffic on the express (toll) portions of road, up to the point where market forces would level off the traffic volumes.

Granted some people have more $ than they need so fees vs time won't matter to them.

08-10-2010, 08:08 AM	#3
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	I took this thread to be about a more a "Libertarian" way of doing things. That is, private ownership of roads and not so much a debate about toll roads and congestion pricing. But so far as fees go... On the 10-mile stretch on Hwy 91, current tolls range from $1.30 - $9.80. It also has a minimum fine of $341 for not having sufficient funds in your account to cover your tolls. Even banks don't charge overdraft fees that high... So what does "Congestion pricing" mean... it means that as the prices go higher it tends to push "excess" vehicles OFF the toll way and back on to regular roads. That is, the effect is to artificially increase and perpetuate even more congestion on the non-toll roads. This is opposed to charging the same fee all the time which would have the effect of always diluting the congestion and increasing traffic on the express (toll) portions of road, up to the point where market forces would level off the traffic volumes. Granted some people have more $ than they need so fees vs time won't matter to them. Attached Images

08-09-2010, 07:12 PM	#1
Lamplighter Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Bottom lands of the Missoula floods Posts: 6,402	I might be able to agree in this particular instance, but private businesses are rarely willing to compete with governmental entities on an even footing, so non-compete clauses abound in contracts. Even physicians bemoan the patients that are "pulled out of their practices" by the same medical school and hospital where they received their own training ! Also, $1 / year for the right of way on the median was a major governmental give-away after doing all the prior bonding, development, engineering, land procurement and basic construction of the existing freeways. If a Libertarian principle is to hold true, that private enterprise would have had to do all that work at it's own expense. All this is beside the point of toll-roads and congestion-pricing. Toll roads are not new, but private ownership certainly is. Sports stadiums are good examples of how the public can be beaten up for the benefit of private owners.

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