America's Religion & Fighting the Tyranny of the Majority

Gwennie! · 12-26-2003, 05:24 AM

Alcoholics Anonymous: America's State Religion?
The new front line in the battle for separation

http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocrw.htm

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"Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity."

There is some lip service to other interpretations, but not in a meaningful way. The Big Book was written in the '40s in the Bible Belt and has had only superficial updates. Written by doctors and lawyers of the time, it as condesending as a terrible Aldlai Stevenson speech.

They updated Step 3 with "God as we understood Him." But the meat of the text remains unchanged. There is one section where they go thru different kinds of athesists and agnostics and say what is wrong with each of them. I especially like the part where they say "these people seem to be born this way."

I've recently spoken with buddhists, jews, and women that have had problems relating to AA. It's not for everyone.

Fact: 60% of recovered alcoholics did it without AA

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New York Times, June 12, 1996
N.Y. Court Lets Inmate Refuse Alcohol Program

Ruling that Alcoholics Anonymous "engages in religious activity and religious proselytization," New York state's highest court declared Tuesday that state prison officials were wrong to penalize an inmate who stopped attending the organization's self-help meetings because he said he was an atheist or an agnostic. ...

But the high court, in a 5-2 ruling, said that state prison officials violated the constitutional rights of the inmate who brought the case, David Griffin, a former heroin addict who complained that he found the Alcoholics Anonymous meetings objectionable because of agnostic or atheistic views he has held since the 1950s.

An atheist denies the existence of God; an agnostic holds that the human mind cannot know whether there is a God. The court said Griffin had presented evidence that he had held both views at certain times.

"A fair reading of the fundamental AA doctrinal writings discloses that their dominant theme is unequivocally religious," the court said. "Adherence to the AA fellowship entails engagement in religious activity and religious proselytization." ...

Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, called the decision "constitutionally correct."

"It's important that the court is recognizing the fundamental principle that government can't force people to participate in religious activities that violate their own tenets," he said. "Also, there's a sense more and more that whoever goes to jail forfeits all constitutional rights. The court is saying you don't."...

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Oregon Suit Challenges AA's Secular Status

A lawsuit was filed ... seeking an injunction to prevent Oregon State agencies (Corrections, the Courts, etc.) from requiring clients to attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. This suit alleges that the AA Program is religious, "advocating faith in God, submission to God, confession to God, prayer, and meditation"...

...many atheists, agnostics, humanists, deists, Buddhists, freethinkers, and others seek a palatable Twelve Step Program in which to recover...

russotto · 12-26-2003, 08:08 AM

12-step programs are overtly religious, though nondenominational. Sounds like the court made the right decision.

xoxoxoBruce · 12-27-2003, 03:45 AM

I view a box of donuts as the only worthy 12 step program.

12-26-2003, 05:24 AM	#1
Gwennie! Not Female at Birth Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Anaheim Posts: 166	America's Religion & Fighting the Tyranny of the Majority Alcoholics Anonymous: America's State Religion? The new front line in the battle for separation http://www.positiveatheism.org/tocrw.htm -------------- "Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity." There is some lip service to other interpretations, but not in a meaningful way. The Big Book was written in the '40s in the Bible Belt and has had only superficial updates. Written by doctors and lawyers of the time, it as condesending as a terrible Aldlai Stevenson speech. They updated Step 3 with "God as we understood Him." But the meat of the text remains unchanged. There is one section where they go thru different kinds of athesists and agnostics and say what is wrong with each of them. I especially like the part where they say "these people seem to be born this way." I've recently spoken with buddhists, jews, and women that have had problems relating to AA. It's not for everyone. Fact: 60% of recovered alcoholics did it without AA -------------- New York Times, June 12, 1996 N.Y. Court Lets Inmate Refuse Alcohol Program Ruling that Alcoholics Anonymous "engages in religious activity and religious proselytization," New York state's highest court declared Tuesday that state prison officials were wrong to penalize an inmate who stopped attending the organization's self-help meetings because he said he was an atheist or an agnostic. ... But the high court, in a 5-2 ruling, said that state prison officials violated the constitutional rights of the inmate who brought the case, David Griffin, a former heroin addict who complained that he found the Alcoholics Anonymous meetings objectionable because of agnostic or atheistic views he has held since the 1950s. An atheist denies the existence of God; an agnostic holds that the human mind cannot know whether there is a God. The court said Griffin had presented evidence that he had held both views at certain times. "A fair reading of the fundamental AA doctrinal writings discloses that their dominant theme is unequivocally religious," the court said. "Adherence to the AA fellowship entails engagement in religious activity and religious proselytization." ... Norman Siegel, the executive director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, called the decision "constitutionally correct." "It's important that the court is recognizing the fundamental principle that government can't force people to participate in religious activities that violate their own tenets," he said. "Also, there's a sense more and more that whoever goes to jail forfeits all constitutional rights. The court is saying you don't."... -------------- Oregon Suit Challenges AA's Secular Status A lawsuit was filed ... seeking an injunction to prevent Oregon State agencies (Corrections, the Courts, etc.) from requiring clients to attend Alcoholics Anonymous meetings. This suit alleges that the AA Program is religious, "advocating faith in God, submission to God, confession to God, prayer, and meditation"... ...many atheists, agnostics, humanists, deists, Buddhists, freethinkers, and others seek a palatable Twelve Step Program in which to recover... __________________ Only The Crumbliest Flakiest Gwennie!

12-26-2003, 08:08 AM	#2
russotto Professor Join Date: Jan 2001 Posts: 1,788	12-step programs are overtly religious, though nondenominational. Sounds like the court made the right decision.

12-27-2003, 03:45 AM	#3
xoxoxoBruce The future is unwritten Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 71,105	I view a box of donuts as the only worthy 12 step program.

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