Egypt and Arab States circle toilet bowl

[Griff]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

I heard a US military Brass chap talking about that.

To establish a no-fly zone, you send in your aircraft to shoot down their air craft.

For that, you need to destroy their air-defence system.

That involves dropping bombs.

That gets messy. Even the smartest bombs sometimes miss, or are poorly targeted.

I think TW has a point. Sometimes, freedom is expensive, and the price is human lives. The world can help, but the Libyans must bear the majority of the burden, else they will end up someone else's vassals. Freezing QGadddafffi's assests was good. If he can't pay his mercenaries, maybe they will go home or even change sides.

Is there some older SAM tech we can get to the rebels? <can of worms>

When this ends though we may be looking at a pretty screwed up place for a long time due to tribal breakdowns. I wonder how we could improve their communications most rapidly after Gaddafi gets ventilated?

[tw]

Originally Posted by Griff

When this ends though we may be looking at a pretty screwed up place for a long time due to tribal breakdowns. I wonder how we could improve their communications most rapidly after Gaddafi gets ventilated?

An answer is found in the exact same concepts that define failing companies. Attitude and knowledge. Appreciate a great advantage that Egypt has. Most all junior officers in the Egyptian military were taught or at least introduced to American (western) concepts. That the army and government serve the poeple. That a country's fundamental strength comes from the masses they serve. That making war on the people is wrong and counterproductive. A concept that even America did not understand in the 1920s. Yes, these concepts are that new even in America.

As a result, now senior Egyptian officers understand concept on how governments and economics work. What is required from the powers that be. Concepts that Libyans have not been trained or even exposed to. In some venues, a benevoent leader or even a concept of term limits make no sense. In many venues, those who seek power therefore deserve to be the righteous leader.

It is not about the economy, intact towns, or wealth. It is about attitude and knowledge. The ability to learn. To understand what management's (government's) job is. Egypt hopefully will prosper from superior knowledge. Libya may suffer from a massive power vacuum because even the army was neither educated nor trained - except in 'ruthless power' concepts. In which case, an only solution would be massive deaths and civil war to fix a mess that Kaddafi has created.

All that suffering is irrelevant. Should be ignored in the press. All attention should be focused on what Libya is to become. And whether the 'powers that be' understand their purpose - which is not power. Massive deaths affecting every family is how those who would otherwise crave power, instead, start realizing why thinking like a moderate is necessary. Many times pain must be that massive to finally force logical thinking.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

Is there some older SAM tech we can get to the rebels? <can of worms>

When this ends though we may be looking at a pretty screwed up place for a long time due to tribal breakdowns. I wonder how we could improve their communications most rapidly after Gaddafi gets ventilated?

I think after they gave Stingers to the Afgans in the 80's they learned their lesson.

[Urbane Guerrilla]

When it comes to the always-desirable business of getting tyrants and undemocrats out of business, some Congresscritters remain a waste both of space and of carbon-14 uptake.

So make that fourteen trillion and one reasons, taking all this lot collectively, for why I don't vote Democratic. These several bozos think there's something else more important to do -- or perhaps that it is better done with plenty of less-than-democracies around.

I have no idea what they are thinking. I am very glad I do not share in it.