Breaking News: Gadhafi's son killed by NATO forces

Jill · 04-30-2011, 06:14 PM

NATO strike 'kills Saif al-Arab Gaddafi', Libya says

OMG, this is horrible news. I was sincerely pinning my hopes on Saif being the one to help negotiate a cease fire and convince his father to step down. He came out recently with very vehement words in support of his father, but I believe he was working "behind the scenes" to find a way out of this mess for everyone involved.

"They are looking for a way out," said the source. "It makes sense for Libya if there is a good exit [for Gaddafi]. What I understand they are saying is that the sons want to continue playing a political role [after the regime has fallen] by having their own party.

"They would accept an interim government and a transition period. What they will not accept is being forced to leave the country. It is what Saif has been working [on]. It is about getting the sides to sit down together and talk and also about having an exit strategy that is not insulting to Gaddafi: that leaves him but without power. That's what Saif is fighting for."

It is precisely this plan, the source confirmed, that Muhammad Ismail, Saif's senior aide and fixer, is said to have presented during a confidential visit to London last month where he met British officials.

The proposal, however, has been rejected emphatically not only by Libya's rebels but by western governments – the UK prominent among them – which insist on the departure of Gaddafi and his sons.

But questions remain. Is Saif the bellicose son of a tyrant, the would-be reformer educated at the London School of Economics, or something in-between?

Houni believes Saif was in earnest about his desire to reform the regime, before he made the decision to adopt his father's hard line.

"It is complicated. Saif was serious. Now [after that speech] no one in Libya takes what he has to say seriously any more. No one will accept what he has to offer. He spent five years trying to bring about change but his father would not have it. He might want to talk about negotiations but it isn't possible."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...i-libya-reform

His death is a tragic blow for all sides. Ugh.

footfootfoot · 04-30-2011, 07:23 PM

I'm sure he was as full of shit as his father. Not for nothing but I called pam as being a troll after his/her first post. I have a highly refined and sensiteve BS detector. But there was this one time at tranny band camp...

Jill · 04-30-2011, 08:16 PM

LOL! You're too funny, footfootfoot.

Jill · 04-30-2011, 10:55 PM

Okay, I feel kind of stupid. I have just been informed that there are 2 sons named Saif. It is the older one, Saif al-Islam who is being discussed as the possible negotiator in the article I linked to. The one who was killed today is Saif al-Arab, and is the youngest of the Gadhafi boys.

Still. A son and 3 grandchildren. Those kids were innocents. I hate to see anything like this happen.

Sundae · 05-01-2011, 05:29 AM

And the lesson we learn from this?
Don't give multiple children the same name.
It confuses Allah and he has to do something dramatic to rectify it.

Griff · 05-01-2011, 05:31 AM

you funny

classicman · 05-01-2011, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundae

And the lesson we learn from this?

If you are going to be part of an asshole dictatorship .. be prepared for you and your family are probably going to to die a horrible death.
Score one for the good guys.

Rhianne · 05-01-2011, 06:31 PM

Asshole dictatorship = legitimate government
Good guys = me and my friends

classicman · 05-01-2011, 08:23 PM

really? Is that what you read into my post? Interesting take.

tw · 05-01-2011, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicman

If you are going to be part of an asshole dictatorship .. be prepared for you and your family are probably going to to die a horrible death.

This is war. The more tragic and horrendous the deaths, then the more likely all will learn from the resulting mistakes that made war inevitable.

Fair&Balanced · 05-01-2011, 10:30 PM

NATO is certainly pushing the envelope of the UN mandate (protect civilians by "all means necessary"). Some might say NATO has overstepped the mandate.

But the bottom line, when the UN and Arab League agree that attacks by the military on unarmed civilians will be met with a response, be prepared for the consequences.

Ghaddafi had choices, like Mubarik in Egypt and Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia. He chose to continue to attack his own people.

Jill · 05-02-2011, 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fair&Balanced

NATO is certainly pushing the envelope of the UN mandate (protect civilians by "all means necessary"). Some might say NATO has overstepped the mandate.

But the bottom line, when the UN and Arab League agree that attacks by the military on unarmed civilians will be met with a response, be prepared for the consequences.

Ghaddafi had choices, like Mubarik in Egypt and Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia. He chose to continue to attack his own people.

This is quite true. Sucks that he was in the home and it was the kids who got killed and not him.

xoxoxoBruce · 05-02-2011, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tw

This is war. The more tragic and horrendous the deaths, then the more likely all will learn from the resulting mistakes that made war inevitable.

Very funny, like were going to learn that lesson now after not learning it from the bazillion previous wars.

04-30-2011, 06:14 PM	#1
Jill Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redondo Beach, CA (transplant from St. Louis, MO) Posts: 218	Breaking News: Gadhafi's son killed by NATO forces NATO strike 'kills Saif al-Arab Gaddafi', Libya says OMG, this is horrible news. I was sincerely pinning my hopes on Saif being the one to help negotiate a cease fire and convince his father to step down. He came out recently with very vehement words in support of his father, but I believe he was working "behind the scenes" to find a way out of this mess for everyone involved. "They are looking for a way out," said the source. "It makes sense for Libya if there is a good exit [for Gaddafi]. What I understand they are saying is that the sons want to continue playing a political role [after the regime has fallen] by having their own party. "They would accept an interim government and a transition period. What they will not accept is being forced to leave the country. It is what Saif has been working [on]. It is about getting the sides to sit down together and talk and also about having an exit strategy that is not insulting to Gaddafi: that leaves him but without power. That's what Saif is fighting for." It is precisely this plan, the source confirmed, that Muhammad Ismail, Saif's senior aide and fixer, is said to have presented during a confidential visit to London last month where he met British officials. The proposal, however, has been rejected emphatically not only by Libya's rebels but by western governments – the UK prominent among them – which insist on the departure of Gaddafi and his sons. But questions remain. Is Saif the bellicose son of a tyrant, the would-be reformer educated at the London School of Economics, or something in-between? Houni believes Saif was in earnest about his desire to reform the regime, before he made the decision to adopt his father's hard line. "It is complicated. Saif was serious. Now [after that speech] no one in Libya takes what he has to say seriously any more. No one will accept what he has to offer. He spent five years trying to bring about change but his father would not have it. He might want to talk about negotiations but it isn't possible." http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...i-libya-reform His death is a tragic blow for all sides. Ugh.

04-30-2011, 07:23 PM	#2
footfootfoot To shreds, you say? Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: in the house and on the street-how many, many feet we meet! Posts: 18,449	I'm sure he was as full of shit as his father. Not for nothing but I called pam as being a troll after his/her first post. I have a highly refined and sensiteve BS detector. But there was this one time at tranny band camp... __________________ The internet is a hateful stew of vomit you can never take completely seriously. - Her Fobs

05-01-2011, 05:31 AM	#6
Griff still says videotape Join Date: Feb 2001 Posts: 26,813	you funny __________________ If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you. - Louis D. Brandeis

05-01-2011, 08:23 PM	#9
classicman barely disguised asshole, keeper of all that is holy. Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 23,401	really? Is that what you read into my post? Interesting take. __________________ "like strapping a pillow on a bull in a china shop" Bullitt

04-30-2011, 08:16 PM	#3
Jill Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redondo Beach, CA (transplant from St. Louis, MO) Posts: 218	LOL! You're too funny, footfootfoot.

04-30-2011, 10:55 PM	#4
Jill Colonist Extraordinaire Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Redondo Beach, CA (transplant from St. Louis, MO) Posts: 218	Okay, I feel kind of stupid. I have just been informed that there are 2 sons named Saif. It is the older one, Saif al-Islam who is being discussed as the possible negotiator in the article I linked to. The one who was killed today is Saif al-Arab, and is the youngest of the Gadhafi boys. Still. A son and 3 grandchildren. Those kids were innocents. I hate to see anything like this happen.

05-01-2011, 05:29 AM	#5
Sundae polaroid of perfection Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: West Yorkshire Posts: 24,185	And the lesson we learn from this? Don't give multiple children the same name. It confuses Allah and he has to do something dramatic to rectify it.

05-01-2011, 06:31 PM	#8
Rhianne Nearly done. Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Teetering on the edge. Posts: 1,134	Asshole dictatorship = legitimate government Good guys = me and my friends

05-01-2011, 10:30 PM	#11
Fair&Balanced Operations Operative Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 495	NATO is certainly pushing the envelope of the UN mandate (protect civilians by "all means necessary"). Some might say NATO has overstepped the mandate. But the bottom line, when the UN and Arab League agree that attacks by the military on unarmed civilians will be met with a response, be prepared for the consequences. Ghaddafi had choices, like Mubarik in Egypt and Abidine Ben Ali in Tunisia. He chose to continue to attack his own people.

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