Oh, well, that's help enormously...

[Griff]

It is incredibly difficult. One key is dispersing poverty instead of consolidating it. Kids from difficult backgrounds need solid peer models to be successful if they have no one at home to show them the way. Schools have their own cultures and if the culture is antagonistic towards academic success, as my rural high school was, only the most motivated children can succeed.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

It is incredibly difficult. One key is dispersing poverty instead of consolidating it. Kids from difficult backgrounds need solid peer models to be successful if they have no one at home to show them the way. Schools have their own cultures and if the culture is antagonistic towards academic success, as my rural high school was, only the most motivated children can succeed.

I think we tried that already when I was younger they called it Forced Bussing. It didn't work.

[Griff]

Bussing was a really bad idea. It punished the motivated families for living in good school districts. I'm talking more along the lines of not supporting ghettoization with public housing policy. The families I've seen often need some pretty basic training on parenting and house-keeping, but they live in large multi-family houses with other people on public support. Landlords with crap properties seek out these people and landlords with decent properties, logically, avoid them like the plague. It doesn't help that home economics is a dying or non-existant program in high schools because everything is geared to tests not to daily living skills. We need to start handing out birth control like candy as well. What were we talking about?

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by Griff

We need to start handing out birth control like candy as well.

That would fix a lot of our problems.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Griff

We need to start handing out birth control like candy as well

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That would fix a lot of our problems.

Birth control is already very accessible in this country, even to underage teens (and it makes religious and rightwing groups froth at the mouth). Termination is also free and readily available. Sex education is generally excellent. Despite what they say on Jeremy Kyle (they were probably blagging off that day, or tattooing their BF's name on their wrist with a compass and a biro).

It makes no difference, trust me.
Young girls want to pretend they didn't want sex. That they were seduced into it, that they were surprised by it, that it happened by chance. Being on the pill would make them a slag. And young lads "wouldn't wear wellies on the beach" ie would never consider putting something plastic and cumbersome on their precious knob. Making you wonder if they've ever even seen a condom.

I'd advocate fitting teen girls with a contraceptive implant until they are at least 18. But I probably wouldn't want to live in a country that was able to enforce that.

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by TheMercenary

That would fix a lot of our problems.

Have you read Feakonomics? They did a detailed statistical analysis of the drop in crime in the USA in the 1990s, and found that there were several minor factors - economic improvement, more cops, longer prison time - which helped a bit, and one huge factor that explained most of it.

The big factor? It was about 17 years since the Roe Vs Wade decision.

Yup.

[TheMercenary]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Have you read Feakonomics? They did a detailed statistical analysis of the drop in crime in the USA in the 1990s, and found that there were several minor factors - economic improvement, more cops, longer prison time - which helped a bit, and one huge factor that explained most of it.

The big factor? It was about 17 years since the Roe Vs Wade decision.

Yup.

Yea, I did read that. Not to long ago. It was an interesting observation.

[be-bop]

Well Dana I wouldn't worry too much about the Tories threat to cut benefits, it seems to be their mantra at the moment do this and don't do that or we'll cut your benefit.
It's really headlines for Daily Mail readers and their ilk, makes them look like they're doing something, it would take a massive change in legislation to amend Social Security rules to do this and they don't have the time in the Commons agenda.
Usual Tory sabre rattling bollocks

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by Griff

if the culture is antagonistic towards academic success, as my rural high school was, only the most motivated children can succeed.

Nor has that changed in my experience. The quality of education in small rural schools in the West (and probably the rest of the nation) is mediocore at best. I was tutoring a child who went to school in the booming town of Paradox, CO (NOT). One day she came up to me with a puzzled look on her face and said, "What's this mean?" And she handed me a note from her teacher "congratulating" her for being part of a group who got to stay after school twice a week and receive tutoring until their math scores improved.

I suppose the teacher was worried about the kids' self esteem, but congratulating them on not being able to do 3rd grade arithametic did not exactly send the message that its important to learn math. And the kids agree that its not important to learn much of anything. They quit high school to work in the mines or oil rigs and by 30 have suffered so many injuries that these jobs become closed to them. Should have at least gotten that GED, but at 16, its much more attractive to get a paycheck and 30 is an impossibly old age, far in the distance.

One of the best things our society could do is change its attitude toward teachers. Right now teaching is a low paid job in comparison to the education needed to qualify for a teacher's degree. Nor are teachers held in very high esteem. Communities too often refuse to vote in tax increases that would pay for better libraries and science and computer labs, as well as give teachers a badly needed raise in salary. An enthusiastic teacher who has a class of 20 instead of 45 can make all the difference.

But American continue to balk in investing in our future - our children. We are foolish and short-sighted in this regard.