Public Schools Pay Teachers 50% Above Market, Heritage Analysis Finds

[ZenGum]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Locally

Interesting that Middle-school teachers get more than high school.

Anyone want to speculate as to why?


Oh and

I think they've cherry picked the data sources to exaggerate the conclusion they'd already reached. I believe the desired result was to plant the seed for a future talking point about how those darn teachers, bloated government teat suckers that they are, they're the friend of our enemy (Obama) and therefore they are your enemy.

Ditto.

[Griff]

That is probably a local phenomena. I would guess they have a bunch of older Middle School teachers. Not that they shouldn't be getting a higher rate, everything is harder in middle school. You can see the pre-k numbers, typically those are non-union non-district employees working for a contractor. I do Special Ed at this level and still have to have my Masters and Certification to work with kids who are pretty challenging but at least below my weight class.

[Trilby]

Why middle school teachers get paid more?

Middle schoolers=increased stinkiness


It's only fair they get combat pay.

[Stormieweather]

Pfft....our teachers are underpaid, if anything. A good teacher does more than just show up. They are involved with the child's family: phone calls, emails, conferences...all after hours. They work on lesson plans, create ideas to promote learning and participate in school events to increase educational advancement by families and students.

If we want top notch teachers to educate our children, we need to pay them accordingly.

We should learn from Finland. I have a friend who is an orchestra conductor there, with two children in school. I hear a lot about their educational system.

Finland’s schools weren’t always so successful. In the 1960s, they were middling at best. In 1971, a government commission concluded that, poor as the nation was in natural resources, it had to modernize its economy and could only do so by first improving its schools. To that end, the government agreed to reduce class size, boost teacher pay, and require that, by 1979, all teachers complete a rigorous master’s program.


Today, teaching is such a desirable profession that only one in ten applicants to the country’s eight master’s programs in education is accepted. In the United States, on the other hand, college graduates may become teachers without earning a master’s. What’s more, Finnish teachers earn very competitive salaries: High school teachers with 15 years of experience make 102 percent of what their fellow university graduates do. In the United States, by contrast, they earn just 65 percent.Though, unlike U.S. education reformers, Finnish authorities haven’t outsourced school management to for-profit or non-profit organizations, implemented merit pay, or ranked teachers and schools according to test results, they’ve made excellent use of business strategies. They’ve won the war for talent by making teaching so appealing.

Education Reform-Finland

The quality of my children's education is so important to me that I moved my whole family less than 1 mile so that my youngest could attend an A school vs an F school, after zoning/choice changes last year. And as a result, my blossoming 1st grader is being tested for gifted classes.

As a country, our priorities are all effed up.

[Clodfobble]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Interesting that Middle-school teachers get more than high school.

Anyone want to speculate as to why?

The quip around here is (heard independently from several teachers): "I'd rather die, than teacher junior high."

(junior high = middle school)

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by ZenGum

Interesting that Middle-school teachers get more than high school.

Anyone want to speculate as to why?

...

They are hormon-driven little animals for about 3 years.

[Happy Monkey]

In high school, most of the dropouts have dropped out. In middle school, they're still hanging out.

[DanaC]

They're comparing them to people with an MBA (?). Wouldn't a better comparison for a fully qualified teacher, with a specialism, be more like a Doctor?

I don't know how it works in the US education system, but it can take 7 years to qualify if you factor in the bachelors, teaching qual and specialisms usually done via part-time module courses whilst also teaching.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by Happy Monkey

In high school, most of the dropouts have dropped out. In middle school, they're still hanging out.

That always pissed me off that my class rank was x out of the number that graduated. We had something like 550 kids start high school in my class my freshman year, and around 380 graduate senior year. x out of 550 sounds a hell of a lot more impressive than x out of 380. It wasn't the people above me dropping out.

[HungLikeJesus]

If x was near the top you wouldn't have minded.

[Undertoad]

I suspect the real overpay comes at the Administrators level.

[glatt]

Originally Posted by HungLikeJesus

If x was near the top you wouldn't have minded.

Anything greater than 1, and it makes a difference. And it was greater than 1. Can't really remember. somewhere in the 80s.

[SamIam]

Originally Posted by tw

$45,000 in NYC is poverty. Was that NY State or Manhattan?

The site I gleaned that little statistic from didn't say. It has to be New York state. That wage in NYC would force a person to live in the projects.

One thing that has not been addressed here is that teaching (and also librarianship) is considered a woman's job. Traditionally, jobs that are usually filled by women pay much less than jobs which are (or were) considered the pervue of men. We may have come a long way, Baby, but sexism (along with racism) still flourish - sometimes openly - like that guy and his restrictions on who he will teach to shoot in Big Sarge's thread.

[tw]

Originally Posted by DanaC

They're comparing them to people with an MBA (?). Wouldn't a better comparison for a fully qualified teacher, with a specialism, be more like a Doctor?

Many states require teachers to obtain a masters degree. A teacher with a masters degree and maybe 25 years experience (from the chart) is paid maybe $90,000. A kid with a masters in business is paid that amount when he starts with zero years experience. We know who created this economic mess. MBAs playing money games. So they deserve more money? Apparently yes according to the Foundation.

The Heritage Foundation all but called teachers evil using propaganda and hearsay. Now we must reduce teacher's pay because wacko extremists say so - without facts or numbers? Not conservatives. Not liberals. Not the nation's best people - the moderates. Only wacko extremists have invented this bogeyman. Blame the overpaid teachers. Since that resulting hate rallies their supporters who tend to be the least educated - ie the tea party.

School board superintendents (ie the top man) typically have doctorates. Earn about $250,000. In Philadelphia where school districts are criticized for being too small, then Philadelphia is criticized for having too many superintendents.

That was a criticism by the Brookings Institute. A think tank that actually does factual analysis. Pennsylvania has too many 'too small' towns, school districts, and state Congressional districts. Therefore it has too many 'top men' administrators. Heritage Foundations, being a political organization, would not discuss that the real problem.

[classicman]

Philadelphia, PA Median Salary Elementary School Teacher $54,783 90th percentile is $74,259

Pennsylvania teacher salaries vs. total education expenditures
Total Expenditures: $19,661,861,370
Teacher Expenditures: $6,517,607,524
Percent Spent on Teachers: 33.15%
from here

Average annual teaching salaries in Pennsylvania are significantly higher than the national average of $48,353 in 2008 and $49,720 in 2009. However, even though the Pennsylvania teaching salaries are on the rise, they are increasing more slowly than the national average. The Pennsylvania teacher salaries’ rate of increase from 2008-2009 was 1.45%, just above half the percentage of the national average increase for teaching salaries in the same year.

from here You can also look up other states on this site.

In PA? This site will tell you what each teacher makes. Pretty scary.

Pennsylvania Highlights
$53960 Avg. Elementary Teacher Salary
$56740 Avg. Secondary Teacher Salary
132% Teacher Salary vs. State Average
15 Weeks vacation per year

Also, Pennsylvania requires that certified teachers at a minimum have a bachelor’s degree and have completed an approved program of teacher education.
So lets be careful before we start saying they need MBA's or PhD's.

Reciprocity with the following states:
Alabama Arizona Arkansas California Colorado Connecticut Delaware Florida Georgia Hawaii Idaho Illinois Kansas Kentucky Louisiana Maine Maryland Massachusetts Michigan Mississippi Missouri Montana Nebraska Nevada New Hampshire New Jersey New Mexico New York North Carolina North Dakota Ohio Oklahoma
Oregon Rhode Island South Carolina South Dakota Tennessee Texas Utah Vermont Virginia Washington West Virginia Wisconsin Wyoming