The Cellar  

Go Back   The Cellar > Main > Creative Expression

Creative Expression Post your own works and chat about them

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-12-2011, 05:27 AM   #16
Griff
Hill-Biffy or HillWilliam
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 18,661
Seriously cool!
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you.
- Louis D. Brandeis
...how easily the learned give up the evidence of their senses to preserve the coherence of ideas in their imagination.
- Adam Smith
I survived the 1980s. Donít try to scare me with terrorism. - Rick Falkvinge
Griff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 07:55 AM   #17
glatt
ô
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 20,542
I'm impressed too.

So how did the natives harvest sinew? I've eaten meat, obviously, but it's usually all cut up by the time I get it. Where's the sinew? In a chicken or turkey, you get some muscles that have a tendon attached where the muscle comes to a point. It that tendon the sinew? How do you get it into those thin strips? Do you remove it when raw and try to pull the fibers apart? Do you cook it first? Is there a particular place on the animal where you get the sinew? It it the achilles tendon? How much sinew is on an animal? Enough for a hundred arrows, or is it like you can make one or two arrows with one animal?

I see this arrow is made of bamboo, or some similar grass or reed type of plant. Is that just a modern guess at how you can make arrows, or is it based on archeological evidence? I'd guess that each tribe of indians had its own local natural resources that it used. There's no flint or obsidian in Arlington, but indians lived and hunted here. What did they use for their arrows?
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 08:44 AM   #18
footfootfoot
This Space For Rent
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in the house and on the street
Posts: 15,645
Glatt, I am reminded of this story. I feel I may have posted it already. In truth, I'll answer all your very good questions later today.


Short version of the story:
In a small village there is a hideous stone statue in the middle of the village square. No one can remember who put it there or when, and no one can even begin to imagine who would have sculpted such a thing, but there it sits. This is how it came to be there.

A long time ago, a rabbi found a golem in a trunk in his basement and decided to re-animate it by placing a sacred scroll with the name of god written upon it into the golem's ear. The Golem came to life, immediately demanding to be given something to do. The rabbi tells the golem the lawn needs mowing and all the hedges need trimming. The golem goes off to do the yard work. The rabbi is no sooner at the top of the cellar steps when the golem comes back to him saying, "I've done as you asked. Give me something else to do!" The incredulous rabbi looks and sees the yard is perfect. He then tells the golem to re-wallpaper the upstairs of the house. The rabbi sits down to read his paper and no sooner is in his chair when the golem reappears demanding to be given another task.

The rabbi tells the golem to paint the house. Before the rabbi has a chance to pick up his paper the golem is back, angrily demanding something more to do. The rabbi has had enough of this by now and reaches up to the golem's ear to remove the scroll. The golem smacks the rabbi's hand away, roaring, “I WANT TO LIVE.” The rabbi, terrified tells the golem to go cut seven cords of wood, split it and stack it behind the house. As the golem heads off to cut the wood, the rabbi runs down to road to the home of an older rabbi. He hurriedly blurts out everything to the older rabbi who slowly shakes his head and says “You’ve done a foolish thing…” They are interrupted by the golem smashing down the rabbi’s door demanding to be given something to do.

The older rabbi tells the golem, “After you repair my front door, I want you to go down to the village square where the children are playing and answer all of their questions.”

The Golem repairs the door and goes to the village square where he sits down and begins fielding questions from the children, “How high is the sky? Why does it rain? When is tomorrow? Why is it dark at night? Do dogs go to heaven?”
After about an hour of answering the children’s questions the golem slowly reaches up to his ear and pulls the scroll out.
__________________
So there are times I regret my Faustian pact for busters bigger than my head. - Sundae

...in the midst of my otherwise blonde and soft body... - Clodfobble (at her worst)
footfootfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 08:52 AM   #19
glatt
ô
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 20,542
Great story! Where did you hear it? Is it European origin? Jewish? Or did it come from some other culture and the Jews just made it their own by turning the wise men into rabbis? What's it have to do with arrowheads though?

glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 09:57 AM   #20
Undertoad
Your Yeoman Purser
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Loveshack
Posts: 25,623
Thank you for using Lithograph instead of Papyrus.
Undertoad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 10:01 AM   #21
regular.joe
Старый сержант
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: NC, dreaming of large Russian women.
Posts: 1,395
Most excellent work. How long did it take the sinew to dry and harden? Did you do the work near a wood fire for the heat, or just in a modern house? Again...excellent work.
__________________
Birth, wealth, and position are valueless during wartime. Man is only judged by his character --Soldier's Testament.

Death, like birth, is a secret of Nature. - Marcus Aurelius.
regular.joe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 11:59 AM   #22
glatt
ô
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 20,542
OK, I read a little bit about sinew. So I'm less curious about that now.
Here's a nice little link about it. Edit: and another. But there's a little blood, so consider yourself warned.

But I am curious about arrow making with local natural resources.
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 12:24 PM   #23
footfootfoot
This Space For Rent
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in the house and on the street
Posts: 15,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by Undertoad View Post
Thank you for using Lithograph instead of Papyrus.
Friends don't let friends use papyrus. I chose litho as a sort of type pun.
__________________
So there are times I regret my Faustian pact for busters bigger than my head. - Sundae

...in the midst of my otherwise blonde and soft body... - Clodfobble (at her worst)
footfootfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 12:26 PM   #24
footfootfoot
This Space For Rent
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: in the house and on the street
Posts: 15,645
Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt View Post
Great story! Where did you hear it? Is it European origin? Jewish? Or did it come from some other culture and the Jews just made it their own by turning the wise men into rabbis? What's it have to do with arrowheads though?

Sinew? Not much, sinew with you?
So how did the natives harvest sinew?
When you butcher an animal you cut the tendon and put it aside. Awesome video of some dishy inuit gals harvesting sinew from an elk (not for people who donít like to look at dishy inuit gals or meat being butchered http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmD49...-4UN6ztUUBIyQw

Where's the sinew?
Sinew connects muscle to bone. Itís another word for Tendon, I guess sort of like how pig becomes pork, tendon becomes sinew. I made that last part up. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tendon

In a chicken or turkey, you get some muscles that have a tendon attached where the muscle comes to a point. It that tendon the sinew?
Yes, the other end of the sinew is at the bone.
How do you get it into those thin strips?
After the sinew dries you pound the living hell out of it and it flattens into a bundle of fibers with a thin sheath around them. You remove the sheath.
Do you remove it when raw and try to pull the fibers apart?
No, you dry the thing first. I dried some beef tendons in a food dryer on low for a few days.
Do you cook it first?
No. Cooking the sinew turns it into glue. I keep the small scraps and whatnot and simmer them in water and they make glue. Really, really strong glue. A method for frosting glass was to paint a piece of glass with gelatin (animal glue) and lay a piece of canvas in the wet glue. After it dried they would rip the canvas off the glass plate and it would take the glass with it. (Sort of like waxing legs, I guess)
Is there a particular place on the animal where you get the sinew?
The two best places for tendon are the hind legs, for thick but short tendons, (I guess they would be analogous to our Achilles tendons, Nirvana could probably tell us their name) and the other is the back staps or what would be the Loin. These are very long but very thin. Better suited to bowstrings and backing bows.
How much sinew is on an animal? Enough for a hundred arrows, or is it like you can make one or two arrows with one animal?
How much usable sinew? Pretty much just the back legs and the backstraps are usable but will yield a lot of sinew. Thousands of arrows. The backstraps? Iím guessing maybe two bowstrings, but I could be way off. Small intestine is also used as a bowstring. I used about 4 beef tendons (leg) to make sinew backing for 2 bows, still have some left over.


I see this arrow is made of bamboo, or some similar grass or reed type of plant. Is that just a modern guess at how you can make arrows, or is it based on archeological evidence?
Archeological evidence. It is actually not bamboo, but Phragmites, the common reed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phragmites
I'd guess that each tribe of indians had its own local natural resources that it used.
Arrow shafting is made from many kinds of plants, Red Osier Dogwood, Arrow Wood Viburnum, Wild Rose (multiflora), reeds, cedar, juniper, pine, cane, reed, bamboo, pretty much anything, light, strong and fairly straight.
Fletching has been made with nearly every kind of feather. Wild turkey wing feathers are one of the most common. The type of feather varies depending on the use of the arrow. (the game being hunted)
There's no flint or obsidian in Arlington, but indians lived and hunted here. What did they use for their arrows? A lot of stones were used including novaculite (the stuff Arkansas whetstones are made from) coprolite (dinosaur poop-who knew?) basalt, pertrified wood, petrified bone, chalcedony, or any cryptocrystalline quartz.

One likely scenario for stone tool production would be for a group to travel to a quarry, spend time there making blanks (called bi-faces) that they would then carry home to finish as needed, thus reducing the weight they had to carry substantially. These could be traded etc. Remember, these folks were up and down the east coast all the time. Wasnít it the Iroquois who ran up and down the eastern seaboard?
__________________
So there are times I regret my Faustian pact for busters bigger than my head. - Sundae

...in the midst of my otherwise blonde and soft body... - Clodfobble (at her worst)
footfootfoot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 01:21 PM   #25
glatt
ô
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Arlington, VA
Posts: 20,542
Thanks for all the answers! The pounding the crap out of the dried tendons to get sinew fibers is a great detail. This is really interesting.

I'm very tempted to jump right in, but then once you have an arrow, you're going to want to use it. I'm afraid I would. And I'm lazy at heart, so I wouldn't go off into some rural area to do it. I'd shoot them off where I live, and that's not such a good idea.

But when we fall back into the stone age and the old ammunition is all used up, I'd have some good knowledge.
glatt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 06:05 PM   #26
ZenGum
Doctor Wtf
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Badelaide, Baustralia
Posts: 12,861
Beltway sniper II: Arrows in the Night!
__________________
Shut up and hug. MoreThanPretty, Nov 5, 2008.
Just because I'm nominally polite, does not make me a pussy. Sundae Girl.
ZenGum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 07:43 PM   #27
BigV
Goon Squad Leader
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Seattle
Posts: 20,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by footfootfoot View Post
Glatt, I am reminded of this story. I feel I may have posted it already. In truth, I'll answer all your very good questions later today.


Short version of the story:
In a small village there is a hideous stone statue in the middle of the village square.
--snip
Quote:
Originally Posted by glatt View Post
Great story! Where did you hear it? Is it European origin? Jewish? Or did it come from some other culture and the Jews just made it their own by turning the wise men into rabbis? What's it have to do with arrowheads though?

That is a most excellent story!
__________________
Remember:

Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones. -- Marcus Aurelius, philosopher and writer (121-180)
BigV is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 08:09 PM   #28
Pooka
Your Invisible Rabbit Friend
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Betwixt and Between
Posts: 528
I wish Flint would post a pic of his dad's amazing arrowhead collection. Bug him and maybe he will...
Pooka is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 08:10 PM   #29
Griff
Hill-Biffy or HillWilliam
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 18,661
c'mon flint pleeeeeeeeeeeeeez!
__________________
If you would only recognize that life is hard, things would be so much easier for you.
- Louis D. Brandeis
...how easily the learned give up the evidence of their senses to preserve the coherence of ideas in their imagination.
- Adam Smith
I survived the 1980s. Donít try to scare me with terrorism. - Rick Falkvinge
Griff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-14-2011, 08:12 PM   #30
HungLikeJesus
Only looks like a disaster tourist
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: above 7,000 feet
Posts: 7,208
Great information, footski. The talk of tendons has made me hungry.

I bet they mostly used the coprolite for the yuck factor. "Dude, you just shot me with dinosaur poop. Yuck!"
__________________
Keep Your Bodies Off My Lawn

SteveDallas's Random Thread Picker.
HungLikeJesus is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:42 PM.

Help fill the mug... click to donate
God is coming, and boy! is he mad!

Powered by: vBulletin Version 3.8.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.