Guns don't kill people ....

[Sundae]

If I'd had access to a gun during my lowest moments I think I would have committed suicide.
Not suggesting it as a reason for gun control, just saying what I think.

When I went to counselling the PSO asked how I invisaged suicide. Shooting myself under my right jaw. I would even probe the spot while imagining it. I must have seen it somewhere when a person was being held hostage - I have no idea if it is an effective spot, but it was very real to me.

It was very reassuring to the PSO; despite counting as suicidal thoughts it was still a suicidal fantasy, given that I had no way of acquiring a gun. At that stage I couldn't even use a phone (I had special dispensation to make walk-in appointments, turning up after a 1.5m walk).

Do you have any restrictions on over the counter drugs commonly used in suicides?
We do.

You can go to every pharmacy in town and buy the maximum allowable of course, but it is hoped that by the time you have queued up behind the methadone patients and the old giffers querying why their their tablets are a different colour, and the women with screaming babies, you will realise that some people have it worse than you.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Sundae

Do you have any restrictions on over the counter drugs commonly used in suicides?
We do.

Drugs are very heavily regulated in the States. I would guess that a lot of over the counter stuff in GB is regulated here. We are a strange place with our talk of liberty. Even dying patients have to squirrel away pills to control their end of life.

[Sundae]

I'm thinking Paracetemol, which from reading American books equates with Tylenol?

[Griff]

So they'd die of internal bleeding and liver failure? I'd rather they had access to an opiate or a gun.

We don't regulate tylenol or some cold medicines but that sounds like a terrible road.

[Lamplighter]

The left demonizes guns to the point where people are prevented from being exposed to a culture of safe handling of firearms, ...

What leads you to say this ?

I've no idea when or how or who, among liberals or anyone else, is preventing education or gun safety.
For example, the NRA/Boy Scouts/hunting clubs/local police/ etc have public gun-safety events,
and I've never heard about anyone complaining or opposing them.

If by "exposed to a culture", you mean everyone should have their own gun,
or parents should always allow their children to play in houses where there are guns,
or everyone should go hunting, or the such, maybe you have a point.

I agree we are very polarized on this issue. But as liberals go,
I feel they live their lives in tolerance of current laws, but maybe working to change them.
But "demonizing", No...
(Well, except I do demonize the NRA --- but only because they deserve it. )

I do see the liberals-on-this-issue trying to use the statistical data that has been gathered
over the years by public health institutions to convince others of
the unnecessary (<-my word) deaths and harm that comes via guns.

I find it ironic that with all it's $, the NRA does not buy gun-safety
PSA's (public service announcements) on radio or TV,
the way electric companies tell people to not touch electric wires.
Instead, the NRA is devoted to... Well, you know what NRA is devoted to.

You mention suicide and home invasions.
For many years, there have been very large, multi-state, annual
surveys by the Feds trying to put numbers on such catagories.
Suicides are easy to count, as are hospital/ER admittances due to gun shot.
Home invasions - not so much - but they do try to sort out if a gun was present/used/deterred
and the data is NOT there to support what the gun community wants to believe.

Then you get into reasons why "the Fed survey is invalid because..."
I can agree with some of the reasons, but at the end of it all it becomes a matter of weight.
If guns were actually deterring or prevention a significant number of injuries,
the data should be leaning in that direction. But it's not.
So everyone gets into anecdotes to make their point... thinking the more dramatic, the better.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

What leads you to say this ?

The federal school zone gun ban leading to the elimination of high school rifle teams would be one example. Was it Spex who posted about his kid sneaking around town with a airsoft rifle leading to a policeman at the door? Spex is probably the most anti-gun American poster here yet he allowed his child to engage in a very dangerous activity with what appeared to be a firearm. Irresponsible behavior with firearms goes across the political spectrum, but the left uses shaming to push ownership underground making ownership less safe. The "community" of gun owners becomes a hardened faction unattractive to many of us. Of course when I look at the right wing douches with their automatics on the cool weapons thread, I am not reassured about the rights' commitment to gun safety either.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Griff

. Was it Spex who posted about his kid sneaking around town with a airsoft rifle leading to a policeman at the door? Spex is probably the most anti-gun American poster here yet he allowed his child to engage in a very dangerous activity with what appeared to be a firearm.

Just for clarification:
17 year old walking unsneakily with a non-lethal "toy" without my advice or consent.

I have no issue with rifles/shotguns being used for protection or sport/hunting, unless the prey is human. I object to the ease which people can murder high numbers of innocents. That's all.

[Griff]

Would it be fair to say, not sneaking with a non-lethal toy which looks like the real thing?

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Griff

The federal school zone gun ban leading to the elimination of high school rifle teams would be one example.<snip>

I had not heard of such a ban, so can you give a link or two ?

There was a ban by some local school boards after the Columnbine shootings.
But in a brief Google search, I haven't yet found such a ban.
There was the Assault Rifle ban in the late 1990's, but that law expired and not re-newed.

OTOH, a Google search for school rifle teams turned up several links,
and here are two, Connecticut and California, and I'm sure there are more...
Middletown Press
Serving Middletown, CT
JIM BRANSFIELD
March 09, 2011

Xavier High School offers rifle team

MIDDLETOWN — It’s many places, it’s a sport in decline, but not at Xavier High School.
The Falcons’ rifle team continues to thrive and according to coach Aaron King,
Xavier’s team is the largest in the state with 45 members.<snip>

“In the state competition there were 50 kids from the five teams,
so that took more than four hours to complete,” said King.<snip>

There are three leagues in the state and the champion of each —
Xavier didn’t win its league, the Quinnipiac
— and two wild cards make up the five teams in state competition.<snip>

“We’ve had no political interference or any sort of argument
brought to me that this isn’t something we should be doing.
It’s very popular with the kids and it’s worthwhile.”

------------

Wickenburg HS: (Calif)
Clubs and School Activities. (Calendar 2012)

We're proud of our Athletics program here at Wickenburg High.
The W.H.S. coed Rifle Team shoots AR 15's and has been shooting high power rifles for several years.
We practice twice a week, year round.
We participate in team and individual shooting competitions throughout the year.

[xoxoxoBruce]

Eddie Eagle says:

If you see a gun:
STOP!
Don’t Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.

Begun in 1988, The Eddie Eagle GunSafe® Program has reached more than 25 million children – in all 50 states. This program was developed through the combined efforts of such qualified professionals as clinical psychologists, reading specialists, teachers, curriculum specialists, urban housing safety officials, and law enforcement personnel.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I had not heard of such a ban, so can you give a link or two ?

Gun-Free School Zones Act of 1990

If you read the wiki, it was found unconstitutional then altered slightly. I'd guess your rifle teams are off-campus activities.

[Spexxvet]

Originally Posted by Griff

Would it be fair to say, not sneaking with a non-lethal toy which looks like the real thing?

sure, But I wouldn't to characterize it as a "very dangerous activity".

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by xoxoxoBruce

Eddie Eagle says:

If you see a gun:
STOP!
Don’t Touch.
Leave the Area.
Tell an Adult.

Yes xoB, I'm familiar with this NRA program, and would favor it being used more.
But presentations are pretty scarce events as far as they go
... and it are often one-time presentations for any particular group of kids.
Again, with all their $, does the NRA really need to charge for the materials.

Radio and TV PSA's would reach many more kids, their parents, and the people who have guns in their house.

Repetition is one key to learning, and it's not just kids who need to learn gun safety.

[Griff]

Originally Posted by Spexxvet

sure, But I wouldn't to characterize it as a "very dangerous activity".

Yet someone called the police. Perception is reality. People are afraid of guns.

[Sundae]

Originally Posted by Griff

So they'd die of internal bleeding and liver failure? I'd rather they had access to an opiate or a gun.

We don't regulate tylenol or some cold medicines but that sounds like a terrible road.

Oh gosh yes, I agree re a horrible, horrible end.
Which is why I didn't choose it. I know about the nastiness of dying of a paracetemol overdose because Mum used to work for the Ambulance Service. She made us aware of all sorts if unusual things (across to the hospital, up to the morgue for example).

Less physically messy though. So if no-one really does love you, you die quietly rather than your landlord retching on his knees faced with a scrubbing brush full of brains.

Emotionally, suicide's a messy business generally.