Should I be an ant or a grasshopper?

infinite monkey · 09-25-2012, 09:06 AM

glatt,

As a financial aid professional for 11 years, I think I can clear up a few misconceptions and offer a bit of guidance. I'll do it in "bullet" points the best I can. Honestly, we could talk for hours on these subjects. So I'll just post stuff as it comes to my mind.

1) Dependent vs Independent: a lot of students get upset because they don't meet the criteria for independency as defined by the Dept of Ed. I understand their point, some of them: they're living on their own...maybe their parents don't give a hoot about their education...and it seems unfair to make them report parental information. However, an independent student with no dependents doesn't need to make a whole lot of money to be clear out of the running for pell grant, whereas a family with a modest/decent income can be eligible because of a number of things that are taken into consideration in the methodology: number in household, number in college (when you have 2 in college you'll get more income exclusion due to that), years until parent's projected retirement, two working parents have some employment exclusion because it costs for two people to work outside the home (because of things like childcare, transportation, meals),etc.

The best thing I learned in my early days was how to hand calculate an EFC (expected family contribution which is the number that is calculated when a FAFSA is submitted.) There is so much more to it than "we make this" so "we'll get this." Learning this manually really opened my eyes to how it works and helped me better advise students.

2) There is a space for 'cash, savings, and checking' and if you have substantial savings the Dept will indeed expect some of that (not all) to be utilized in educating your child. This field is self-reporting and is not a verifiable element if the family gets randomly selected by the processing center for 'verification' (as approximately 1/3 of FAFSA apps are.) The following manual has worksheets in it, with tables, so you can see how much of a bite of it they might take. http://ifap.ed.gov/fsahandbook/attachments/1213AVG.pdf

3) As to 'owing your child a four year degree' it is the view of the Dept of Ed that a parent is indeed responsible for their child's education TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE ABLE. My feeling is that, as good parents like you are, you do want to give your kids advantages and I believe parents need to sacrifice a bit so their kids can get that education. Mine did; they didn't go to college and they were damn sure we would.

4) Scholarships are indeed important and there are SO many ways to get those. Apply through the school; apply for the database through a site such as finaid.gov; visit civic organizations. It all adds up. Students need to be very proactive in this search.

5) Many wonderful students are saving a ton of money by doing their first two years at a community college then transferring those credits to university. I see a lot of that, and it makes sense. Get the gen-eds out of the way, transfer to school of choice with that savings still there to use or at least student loan borrowing power they didn't have to use at the CC. These aren't your old school community colleges (this one, in fact, was written up in a majorly major big city newspaper as a model for what CCs should be.)

6) A useful tool is the Fafsa forecaster: which can give you estimates on what you might expect. http://studentaid.ed.gov/fafsa/estimate

7) All FA offices operate under EVER-CHANGING federal regulations, but many office policies vary in their administration.

8) Please be aware of some shady schools (not naming names, no way) who never tell you that the credits you get there will never transfer to another school. I imagine your kids would be leaning towards a more traditional education, anyway.

9) You can buy a farm but you have to live on a working farm or else it just counts as another asset. Back in the day they actually wanted to know the value of your home then felt it was unfair to expect a family to sell their home to pay for college.

If you have specific questions feel free to ask here or PM.

Your kids are 4 years away and you are right to start planning: that puts you way ahead of the ballgame. Keep in mind that things could also be very very different in 4 years, the way the regs change.

Do you have a financial advisor? If not you might consider it: how best to utilize your saved money while keeping in mind your kid's college education.

footfootfoot · 09-25-2012, 09:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

glatt,

As a financial aid professional for 11 years, I think I can clear up a few misconceptions and offer a bit of guidance. I'll do it in "bullet" points the best I can. Honestly, I could talk for hours on these subjects while your eyes glaze over. So I'll just post stuff as it comes to my mind.

glatt · 09-25-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by infinite monkey

glatt,

As a financial aid professional for 11 years, I think I can clear up a few misconceptions and offer a bit of guidance.

Thanks!

There's a lot there to digest. I'm going to poke around int hose links and I'm sure I'll have questions.

You're the best!

Lamplighter · 09-25-2012, 09:24 AM

Quote:

5) Many wonderful students are saving a ton of money by doing their first two years at a community college then transferring those credits to university. I see a lot of that, and it makes sense. Get the gen-eds out of the way, transfer to school of choice with that savings still there to use or at least student loan borrowing power they didn't have to use at the CC. These aren't your old school community colleges (this one, in fact, was written up in a majorly major big city newspaper as a model for what CCs should be.)

Our family lives by this advise.

But transfer students need to be well-aware...
When they do transfer, there is a different world to be negotiated.

The straight-A student in high school and/or community college is sometimes lost
in the herd of 3rd and 4th year students who have already survived the weed-out processes,
and formed their more demanding "adult-level" of study habits.

footfootfoot · 09-25-2012, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Our family lives by this advise.

But transfer students need to be well-aware...
When they do transfer, there is a different world to be negotiated.

The straight-A student in high school and/or community college is sometimes lost
in the herd of 3rd and 4th year students who have already survived the weed-out processes,
and formed their more demanding "adult-level" of study habits.

STOP STOP with the bad spelling. My fucking brain is about to explode.

(Not you specifically, Lamp. It's just everyone today. The Devisive Sceptics needing Advise.)

Lamplighter · 09-25-2012, 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by footfootfoot

STOP STOP with the bad spelling. My fucking brain is about to explode.

I'll try harder to take your advice.

mia colpa

footfootfoot · 09-25-2012, 10:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

I'll try harder to take your advice.

mia colpa

Jest say three Hale Marries and you'll be dissolved.

09-25-2012, 09:06 AM	#1
infinite monkey Person who doesn't update the user title Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 13,002	glatt, As a financial aid professional for 11 years, I think I can clear up a few misconceptions and offer a bit of guidance. I'll do it in "bullet" points the best I can. Honestly, we could talk for hours on these subjects. So I'll just post stuff as it comes to my mind. 1) Dependent vs Independent: a lot of students get upset because they don't meet the criteria for independency as defined by the Dept of Ed. I understand their point, some of them: they're living on their own...maybe their parents don't give a hoot about their education...and it seems unfair to make them report parental information. However, an independent student with no dependents doesn't need to make a whole lot of money to be clear out of the running for pell grant, whereas a family with a modest/decent income can be eligible because of a number of things that are taken into consideration in the methodology: number in household, number in college (when you have 2 in college you'll get more income exclusion due to that), years until parent's projected retirement, two working parents have some employment exclusion because it costs for two people to work outside the home (because of things like childcare, transportation, meals),etc. The best thing I learned in my early days was how to hand calculate an EFC (expected family contribution which is the number that is calculated when a FAFSA is submitted.) There is so much more to it than "we make this" so "we'll get this." Learning this manually really opened my eyes to how it works and helped me better advise students. 2) There is a space for 'cash, savings, and checking' and if you have substantial savings the Dept will indeed expect some of that (not all) to be utilized in educating your child. This field is self-reporting and is not a verifiable element if the family gets randomly selected by the processing center for 'verification' (as approximately 1/3 of FAFSA apps are.) The following manual has worksheets in it, with tables, so you can see how much of a bite of it they might take. http://ifap.ed.gov/fsahandbook/attachments/1213AVG.pdf 3) As to 'owing your child a four year degree' it is the view of the Dept of Ed that a parent is indeed responsible for their child's education TO THE EXTENT THEY ARE ABLE. My feeling is that, as good parents like you are, you do want to give your kids advantages and I believe parents need to sacrifice a bit so their kids can get that education. Mine did; they didn't go to college and they were damn sure we would. 4) Scholarships are indeed important and there are SO many ways to get those. Apply through the school; apply for the database through a site such as finaid.gov; visit civic organizations. It all adds up. Students need to be very proactive in this search. 5) Many wonderful students are saving a ton of money by doing their first two years at a community college then transferring those credits to university. I see a lot of that, and it makes sense. Get the gen-eds out of the way, transfer to school of choice with that savings still there to use or at least student loan borrowing power they didn't have to use at the CC. These aren't your old school community colleges (this one, in fact, was written up in a majorly major big city newspaper as a model for what CCs should be.) 6) A useful tool is the Fafsa forecaster: which can give you estimates on what you might expect. http://studentaid.ed.gov/fafsa/estimate 7) All FA offices operate under EVER-CHANGING federal regulations, but many office policies vary in their administration. 8) Please be aware of some shady schools (not naming names, no way) who never tell you that the credits you get there will never transfer to another school. I imagine your kids would be leaning towards a more traditional education, anyway. 9) You can buy a farm but you have to live on a working farm or else it just counts as another asset. Back in the day they actually wanted to know the value of your home then felt it was unfair to expect a family to sell their home to pay for college. If you have specific questions feel free to ask here or PM. Your kids are 4 years away and you are right to start planning: that puts you way ahead of the ballgame. Keep in mind that things could also be very very different in 4 years, the way the regs change. Do you have a financial advisor? If not you might consider it: how best to utilize your saved money while keeping in mind your kid's college education.

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