Election 2012

[Ibby]

also, PH45, i take it from your description there that you think it's possible to be racist against white people. That's not true.

Definitions Explained Better Than I Ever Could.

This is an exerpt from the article Why There’s No Such Thing as Reverse Racism. It is a fantastic article and I encourage you to read it in it’s entirety. For now, I want to highlight the explanation/definition of three specific words.

Prejudice is an irrational feeling of dislike for a person or group of persons, usually based on stereotype. Virtually everyone feels some sort of prejudice, whether it’s for an ethnic group, or for a religious group, or for a type of person like blondes or fat people or tall people. The important thing is they just don’t like them — in short, prejudice is a feeling, a belief. You can be prejudiced, but still be a fair person if you’re careful not to act on your irrational dislike.

Discrimination takes place the moment a person acts on prejudice. This describes those moments when one individual decides not to give another individual a job because of, say, their race or their religious orientation. Or even because of their looks (there’s a lot of hiring discrimination against “unattractive” women, for example). You can discriminate, individually, against any person or group, if you’re in a position of power over the person you want to discriminate against. White people can discriminate against black people, and black people can discriminate against white people if, for example, one is the interviewer and the other is the person being interviewed.

Racism, however, describes patterns of discrimination that are institutionalized as “normal” throughout an entire culture. It’s based on an ideological belief that one “race” is somehow better than another “race”. It’s not one person discriminating at this point, but a whole population operating in a social structure that actually makes it difficult for a person not to discriminate.

[piercehawkeye45]

Originally Posted by Ibby

also, PH45, i take it from your description there that you think it's possible to be racist against white people. That's not true.

You should really take what I say with an open mind and not assume you know what I believe. These -isms are very complicated and much more vast than the popular labels used here in the states. (Note, this post is much longer than I intended....I'm rambling)

First of all, before throwing around other people's views, we need to talk about the definition of racism. Racism is social doctrine that is held and enforced by a population. This has a MUCH wider scope than the white versus black racism that we usually refer to. For example, if my community thinks Italians are lazy and routinely pass them up on job applications, that community (generalized) is racist against Italians. If a community thinks Chinese people are mathematically smart and only hire them for mathematically based work, that is racism. It doesn't matter the intention or severity, it a group of people enforce a stereotype (social doctrine), it is by definition racist.

I don't want to go too far into this because it is extremely controversial, but I strongly believe our society's narrow definition of racism does more harm than good. We need to realize that since our society is racist, everyone is going to pick up some racist behavior no matter your skin color. I have had discussions with multiple "pro-revolution" black people and they have all admitted that they harbor racist thoughts against themselves as well. Only then, can we have a intelligent discussion about how to address the current state of racism in our society because we need everyone on the same page. Right now, everyone is all over the place so naturally, no one can agree on the best course of action. This why I said earlier in a different thread that racism has changed and so the reaction against it needs to follow as well.


Second, "colorblindness" can mean many different things so we need to figure out what we are talking about. As I said before, there is a difference between acting in a color blind manner and marginalizing racism. Right now, as a graduate student in engineering, I study with people from all over the world. I would never treat the black person I study with any different than the Chinese person I study with. If I did, it would be racist and condescending to the black person because he is just as capable as the Chinese student. On a person to person basis, I try my best to treat every person, regardless of skin color or background, the same.

On the other hand, I recognize the racism in our society and do not try to marginalize it. This line between colorblindness and marginalizing is subjective so there will naturally be some overlap and disagreements but that is another discussion. However, I feel it is best for society and federal institutions to address and equalize the racist inequalities in our society, not individuals. Individuals can take part and support our institutions in doing that, which I do, but I will not take it upon myself, as a white person, to dictate what is best for black people since I have no perspective.


As for the entire "there can be no such thing as reverse racism" crap, that entire discussion is stupid in my opinion because it is narrow minded. Especially now, we cannot quantify racism within a society due to its complexity and fluidness. You can not just assume that racism is flat and equal. There are some parts of our white versus black racial interaction that is racist against white people and some parts that are racist against black people. I just believe that the parts that are racist against black people are MUCH more severe and have a MUCH greater effect on a person's life. So, if you take the "average", yes, it one way, but to claim that racism can only go one way limits discussion of how racism really works and therefore ends up hurting the fight against racism due to lack of understanding.


As a last point, and don't take this as an insult, but I think your signature line "show me a problem you don’t think is caused by white people and i’ll show you how you missed hundreds of years of cultural hegemony and imperialism/colonialism." is racist. Now, I don't believe it is racist against white people, but racist against people of color. By claiming that all of the world's problems are caused by white people is extremely condescending towards people of color by claiming they have no control over their lives. Now, white people have done a lot of fucked up shit and still continue to do fucked up shit to other countries (the not marginalizing part...), but people of color have much more control over their world than you are making it out to be and by denying them that claim of control, you imply that they do not have the ability of self-determination. Just so you realize, white people do not have full control over everyone's lives. We have had a major influence, but people from other countries are no different from us. They have politicians who are lying sacks of shit and opportunist who will fuck over their entire population for wealth and power too.

Thankfully for us, the United States has institutions that protect us to a much greater extent from these fuckers and unfortunately, many third world countries do not enjoy these institutions (partly because of white people...). I know full well that white people can fuck over America and I damn well believe that black people can fuck themselves over as well.

[Lamplighter]

Remember that post about John Ludlow

Now look at the crap going on in that election...


Times Union.com
STEVEN DUBOIS, Associated Press
November 2, 2012

Ballot tampering reported in Clackamas County

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — Authorities said Friday they were investigating suspected ballot tampering
by an election worker in one of Oregon's most populous counties.

Clackamas County Clerk Sherry Hall said a criminal violation of election law was uncovered
by her office Wednesday and reported to the secretary of state's Elections Division.
Hall declined to identify the worker or describe the specific nature of theviolation.<snip>

[Skuttle-butt says a female, temporary, employee in the Sec of State's office
was illegally marking ballots for John Ludlow when the original voter had not voted for either candidate.]

Oregon was the first state to conduct elections exclusively by mail,
and this is the fourth presidential election in which the system has been used.
Despite initial fears that the method would lead to fraud, allegations have been rare.

Because it's a criminal matter, the Elections Division referred the case to the state Department of Justice.

"We can confirm we are currently investigating criminal felony violations of Oregon's election laws,
which allegedly took place in Clackamas County and allegedly involved a
temporary county elections employee tampering with cast ballots," said Jeff Manning,
a department spokesman.
<snip>

Officials wouldn't say how extensive they suspect the tampering might have been.
About 95,500 of the county's 228,000 registered voters had returned their ballots as of Thursday.

Clackamas County is home to 10 percent of Oregon's registered voters,
and is almost evenly split between Republicans and Democrats,
It's considered a swing county that is pivotal in deciding close statewide races.
Three neck-and-neck legislative races could be decisive in determining
which party controls the state House.

Republicans party officials are already denying everything,
and demanding an apology from Ludlow's opponent, Charlette Lehan,
after her campaign chairman made the following statement:

“It throws the entire election result in doubt at this point,”
said Chris Edmonds, campaign manager for Lehan
“We don’t whether this was part of a larger and more coordinated effort in the elections office.”

[Lamplighter]

Originally Posted by Lamplighter

Remember that post about John Ludlow

Now look at the crap going on in that election...

Times Union.com
STEVEN DUBOIS, Associated Press
November 2, 2012
Ballot tampering reported in Clackamas County
[Skuttle-butt says a female, temporary, employee in the Sec of State's office
was illegally marking ballots for John Ludlow when the original voter had not voted for either candidate.]

Republicans party officials are already denying everything,
and demanding an apology from Ludlow's opponent, Charlette Lehan,
after her campaign chairman made the following statement:

As a follow up to that mess...

Portland Tribune
Raymond Rendleman
25 April 2013
Former county elections worker pleads guilty to fraud charges

Deanna Swenson, a former Clackamas County elections worker,
was sentenced to 90 days in jail after pleading guilty to official misconduct
and tampering with ballots cast for the November election.

Besides the jail time, Clackamas County Circuit Court Judge Susie L. Norby ordered
Swenson to pay more than $13,000 in fines and perform community service.
After working in several elections, Swenson is now banned from the Clackamas County Elections Office.

“This prosecution sends a strong message:
Voter fraud will not be tolerated in Oregon,” said Secretary of State Kate Brown.
<snip>
Senior Assistant Attorney General Matthew R. McCauley prosecuted the case.
“Department of Justice investigators and prosecutors took this case from the initial tip
through investigation to indictment and guilty plea in less than six months,”
said Oregon Attorney General Ellen Rosenblum.
“Anyone attempting to subvert Oregon’s elections should know
from this quick and successful prosecution that such conduct is unacceptable.”

[xoxoxoBruce]

It's good she was caught and punished, but it doesn't correct the election, and it doesn't stop them from bringing in a throw-away shill again next time.