It takes only 5 people to end gun violence in America.

[Ibby]

But even Vermont has limits. You can't have a round in the chamber in a long gun in a vehicle, for instance. So cops can treat any long gun in the passenger cabin as a threat until proven otherwise.

Keeping a long gun in your home for self defense is reasonable. Keeping it unloaded in your trunk en route to hunting is reasonable. Having it in public is not. Long guns in public are not for self defense. They are for murder.

By far, black men are the victims of gun violence, at the hands of both blacks and whites. But you didn't see the NRA arguing that Trayvon Martin should have had a gun to defend himself from his murderer, do you?

[classicman]

Originally Posted by Ibby

But you didn't see the NRA arguing that Trayvon Martin should have had a gun to defend himself from his murderer, do you?

Typical partisan bullshit, Trayvon was still a minor at the time.

[Adak]

Originally Posted by classicman

Typical partisan bullshit, Trayvon was still a minor at the time.

When I first saw the pictures of Martin's killer, and heard the 911 call, I said "he doesn't look like he's been in a fight". Maybe he did pick the fight with Martin.

Then I learned that:

1) The 911 call had been edited by NBC news media, to make it sound like Zimmerman was a racist.

2) The pictures of Zimmerman, taken at the time, had been altered to make him appear less injured than he was.

(In fact Zimmerman is now suing the pants off NBC for this).

So here's my take on this - mind you, I only know what the media has reported, and little else, so there is speculation written all over this:

* Martin was bigger than Zimmerman, and a football player. He also had a temper - several fights in high school, in his background.

* His gf stated Martin saw Zimmerman following him, and didn't like it. Told her to go on, he was going to "handle this" problem.

* He got into a fight with Zimmerman, because he didn't like being followed, and Zimmerman wouldn't cooperate and leave.

* Martin was winning the fight, being bigger and stronger than Zimmerman, and frankly, more experienced as a fighter and physical (heavy contact), athlete.

* Martin broke Zimmerman's nose - and had him on his back, at least once, according to both an eye witness, and Zimmerman's jacket with grass stains on the back. Police verified the broken nose of Zimmerman, not the eye witness.

Also, Zimmerman's face was swollen. Clearly he'd been punched in the face, several times.

So I believe that Martin was clearly winning the fight, until Zimmerman shot him, and although Zimmerman's following of Martin was somewhat bothersome to me, it did not break any laws.

The court will rule it was self-defense, when all the facts come out.

[Trilby]

Originally Posted by Ibby

But even Vermont has limits.

With no intention of derailing this thread, I slap you with my white leather glove and tell you, sternly, madam, Vermont HAS NO LIMITS.


and you know it.

[Griff]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/...47f_story.html

David Gregory shows the effectiveness of DC's gun laws.